[Shadow of the Lamb] Miracles

[Adam Cerling]

Rule 1: The actual effect of a miracle is not governed by fortune.

That is, you don't roll to have the voice of God speak or heal a blind man. That stuff just happens - or doesn't happen, depending on perception. In other words, no "miracle" in the game is certain. You can't have something happen that someone couldn't explain away, no matter how farfetched.

I need to work harder on how this is arbitrated. While the Polaris-style arbitration is good, I don't want to steal that mechanic for part of the game, and not for anything else.

You're starting to make me think of Calvin and Hobbes. Calvin's the miracle-worker, Hobbes is God and his parents are unbelievers. "But Mom, it wasn't me who broke the lamp, it was God!"

[Paul Czege]

Hey Clinton,

Rule 1: The actual effect of a miracle is not governed by fortune.
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.
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Rule 2: The belief of characters is governed by drama, karma and fortune.


I think there are actually two kinds of old testament things we think of as miracles:

1. There's the active shit. Prophesying. Healing the blind. Turning water to wine. Raising the dead.
2. And there's the interpretive shit. "My brother, the tree in front of your house is dead..."

Early Christianity is all about the interpretive shit. It's about having a vision of cause and effect, truth, reality, and morality, and getting others to believe. Galilee was a hotbed of religious activism. The disciples were all gurus, strong and charismatic advocates of their own personal ideas of how the Jews ought to living and what they ought to be doing about the Romans. And they didn't do type 1 miracles.

If I were designing Shadow of the Lamb, it would all be about interpretive competition. It would be about belief. The resolution mechanics would allow a player to tell another PC or NPC what they believe.

Is that the game you're designing?

Paul

[quozl]

Paul, I think you might want to read the New Testament again.  It's almost all Type 1. 

[Clinton R. Nixon]

What do the players do?
What do the characters do?

The characters are early Christian believers. That's not to say they believe what's in the New Testament - most people didn't at that time. They will usually be missionaries or teachers.

The players are of course playing these characters. By the end of the game, they will have influenced what Christianity will become in this fictional version of the world.

Why miracles? I can't figure out why you keep asking why, actually. Early Christian teachers performed miracles, or at least there are stories that they did.

Paul,

That's definitely the game I'm designing. That said, a lot of people believed in type I miracles, and there are reports of the original apostles and others performing them. The mechanics revolve entirely, though, around influencing what others believe. (At least for the miracle part of the game.)

[Paul Czege]

I'm struggling to recall a passage in which a disciple performs a type 1 miracle independent of the agency of Christ? Give me an example?

Paul

[Adam Cerling]

I'm struggling to recall a passage in which a disciple performs a type 1 miracle independent of the agency of Christ? Give me an example?

Paul

The book of Acts is the place to go for such examples -- not to mention being, most likely, the best book of the Bible for what Clinton wants to achieve.

(6) Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk." (7) Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong. (8) He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. (9) When all the people saw him walking and praising God, (10) they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.

Also upon a cursory skimming, Acts 5:1-10 (Ananias and Sapphira fall dead for trying to deceive the church), Acts 5:12 ("The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people."), Acts 12:1-17 (Peter's miraculous escape from prison), Acts 14:8-10 (Paul heals a crippled man), Acts 16:16-34 (Paul and Silas cast out an evil spirit and are freed from prison), Acts 19:11-12 (items that Paul touched heal the sick), Acts 20:7-12 (Paul raises a dead man), and Acts 28:3-6 (Paul is unpoisoned by the bite of a viper).

[Paul Czege]

Adam,

Excellent. Thanks.

Paul

[quozl]

Why miracles? I can't figure out why you keep asking why, actually. Early Christian teachers performed miracles, or at least there are stories that they did.

Let me use an analogy.  Let's say you were writing an RPG set in the middle ages and you were asking on how to do rules for the encumberance of heavy plate armor.  I'd be saying "Why do you need to focus on that?  I thought your RPG was going to be about courtly romance." 

What I'm missing is how the miracles tie in to being missionaries or teachers or influencing what Christianity becomes.  Maybe it's just "historical accuracy" or "setting color".  If so, I think it will majorly distract from the teaching and influencing.  Maybe you've already got it figured out in your head and I'm just missing it. 

[Doug Ruff]

Re: the whole miracle thing. I get the impression that most of the New Testament miracles are, for want of a better phrase, about getting people's attention. Basically, they are advertisments. They are a set up for the most important miracle of the whole story, which is the Resurrection of Christ.

To put it another way: the ethical lessons of Christianity are about love, forgiveness and generally being a good person. They're in the parables. The recruitment pitch is 'life eternal'. That's what the miracles are for: to help people believe in the possibility of 'life eternal', and to get their attention for the parables.