"All's quiet..." draft 5

[JSDiamond]

Slowly but surely... getting it all worked out.  This time taking a cue from the earliest posts about environment modifier values.  Got them dialed in good --hopefully you will think so too when you try it out.

I will also post the expanded GM's booklet tonight around 6pm PST.  All of this should provide plenty for some more detailed play-testing as more setting info is included in that.

[JSDiamond]

It might help to have the address for the PDF...

http://www.orbit-rpg.com/alls_quiet5.pdf

[JasonPalenske]

Just some immediate thoughts as I read it. I really enjoy the idea of rolling for the people or things bent on stopping you. On the other hand the large amount of different modifiers I'm finding a bit distracting. I can see how this may be become a done on the fly thing if I were playing for speeds sake.

[JasonPalenske]

Also I think I'd like some more setting material. I know it is meant to be in three parts, but a little more on the City of Ruin i would find helpful, especially in the areas of who what when where why of the city and its thieves. Just some extra thoughts at a first read. Love the rewards by the way.

[JSDiamond]

Thanks for the comments, Jason.  To address your questions; I am working on the setting material.  To help with playtesting I want to get the nuts and bolts of the GM's info finished first, and then get a rough draft of the Debris booklet with more setting info, posted.  That should happen during this upcoming week. 

I'm in agreement with you that the mods look to be a bit much --I'm trying to filter it all to be more concise.  It is my hope that after reading the rules, that a short recap of them will create a comfort level for players with the system, since most of the game's preparation is the responsibility of the GM. 
 

[Callan S.]

I still don't quite get the big difference of rolling for the people who are looking for the thief. I'm presuming it's a sim technique, that has the dice rolls describe the NPC's skills but leaves the thief (the center of the game) to the players imagination rather than to the dice to describe. Thus you are more free to imagine him. Way off?

But here's why I really posted. I responded in I think the first threads about this game. But the thing is, I can't just take a PDF link and respond to it. It could be seen as a flaw of mine, but I like to see it as a feature - unlike the academics of the forge, who read through stuff as easily as they breathe, I need to be excited from the start, to read through the text. Preferably an example of play right at the start, showing a scene which is what the game is all about and how it entertains. Then perhaps followed by a mechanically detailed example of how to get something/some event that's cool (barring any unusual interfearance). In other words, I think my approach matches that of an average customer more than a studious analysis would simulate.

Either that or bring up what you want to discuss about the design here and outline the text involved.

Now this is just me and it applies to the other PDF linkers equally. But I thought that saying this is better than not giving any feedback at all.

[JSDiamond]

I still don't quite get the big difference of rolling for the people who are looking for the thief. I'm presuming it's a sim technique, that has the dice rolls describe the NPC's skills

I know --this point of view takes some getting used to, and again this is something I will attend to in the final edit.  The difference is this: You and me, we know our characters.  We know what's in their minds because we ARE them (in a manner of speaking).  So when "we" do things in the game it is assumed that we are trying our best to do exactly what we (as players) say we are doing.  Ultimately, we can only control our own "self." 

What we can't control is someone else; a guard for instance.  We don't know what's on his mind, we can't say if he has perfect vision or not, if he's skilled, if he's tired, or whatever.  Only the GM knows those things.  So, our only resource in this game world is the environment.  We don't control it either, but we know (more-or-less) what influence it has on our ability to hide, etc.  Because we are pros.  We know the risks and we do our best to use the environment to our advantage.  We don't roll for ourselves because we know what we're doing.  The GM cannot question OUR abilities. Nobody can.  So, we (as players) know that we (as characters) are doing our best to stay hidden from the guard, because we recognize the risks and ALWAYS do our best --given what resources we have to choose from. (no die-roll)  Leaving the challenge of interacting with the guard as our only unknown factor: Does the guard see us?  Now, a die-roll is needed.  So, if he does see us, it's academic as to "how" --because now we're in a world of trouble.  Maybe he heard the scrape of an errant step; maybe he saw the momentary reflection in our eyes from the torchlight; maybe he smelled the wet wool of our cloak; or maybe the floorboard squeaked. 

The same goes for a locked safe.  The safe doesn't become something more just because we are trying to pick the lock.  Whatever its difficulty, however complex the mechanism --it is what it is.  And until we interact with it, we won't know how challenging it will be.        

...but leaves the thief (the center of the game) to the players imagination rather than to the dice to describe. Thus you are more free to imagine him. Way off?

Callan you are right *on* it.  Though I'm not too clear on the terminology definitions --maybe Ron or another well-versed Forgite theorist can help out, but I wanted a heavy sim(?) system for one side of this game because I want to embrace the "player-as-character" mindset.  So, yes we imagine what we do, and we can describe things as colorful (flavor) as we like knowing that we always succeed at the things we CAN control. 

In a way, the only person who can FAIL is our opponent (the NPC).  Because we (players and characters) never fail to do our best. On a side note, maybe this is a whole new stance? 
         

But the thing is, I can't just take a PDF link and respond to it. It could be seen as a flaw of mine, but I like to see it as a feature - unlike the academics of the forge, who read through stuff as easily as they breathe, I need to be excited from the start, to read through the text.

I understand, but I just didn't feel comfortable posting 20+ pages of text.     

[mutex]

For the modifiers, perhaps you could limit them to a certain number, say three, for example.  In any given situation, there are only three modifiers maximum.  I pick three, because it's generally easy to remember three things.

Of course, I know a lot of people like quite crunchy systems with loads of special modifiers, so you may be better off leaving it the way it is now.

Your ultimate decisions, of course, being governed by your intended audience and how well handling time works in actual play.

The last raises the question, have you been playtesting this, yet?

[JSDiamond]

In any given situation, there are only three modifiers maximum.  I pick three, because it's generally easy to remember three things

I did that with Orbit.  For this one I'm going more crunchy --more sim.

...have you been play-testing this, yet?

Yes... at work... very quietly.

 

[Callan S.]

Hi JS,

I thought so. The PC is kind of like an enigma, in terms of system. System defines everything around him, but he himself is entirely a creation of the players imagination (though the player may choose, if he wishes, to use system results to fill out that - ie, the guard heard me because my theif stumbled, or whatever).

I really like your post that described it so well...is that already in the text of the game? I'd really recommend putting that in, because this is the sort of major feature that really makes your product stand out. Ya need ta really show it off, baby! :) Besides, this feature deserves showing off since its so distinct.

I understand, but I just didn't feel comfortable posting 20+ pages of text.

Sorry, I just meant posting the new bits, or samples of the new bits, and asking for discussion on them.

Yes... at work... very quietly.

That strikes me as so cool, though! Wouldn't it be cool if play it's self had to be wispered, OR ELSE? Some sort of quiet consipiracy of whispers, or otherwise your screwed mechanically? Nothing that would cut off table chat, but would change it from rowdy socialising to 'were all in this conspiracy together' whispered socialising.

[JSDiamond]

I really like your post that described it so well...is that already in the text of the game? I'd really recommend putting that in, because this is the sort of major feature that really makes your product stand out. Ya need ta really show it off, baby! :) Besides, this feature deserves showing off since its so distinct.

You're right on, and I will change the text to include it just like that. 

t it be cool if play it's self had to be wispered, OR ELSE? Some sort of quiet consipiracy of whispers, or otherwise your screwed mechanically? Nothing that would cut off table chat, but would change it from rowdy socialising to 'were all in this conspiracy together' whispered socialising.

That's brilliant!  I'm going to put that in as a suggested trope to playing.  I never thought of that but how odd would that be? A group at a game store *not* shouting?  Just whispering back and forth...

I should have some updattes and the bginnings of the Debris draft either today or tomorrow.