Seven Leagues (a fantasy RPG of Faerie) reawakens (split)

[hieronymous]

Thanks, Bill, for the very kind words.

I like your remarks on Charm costs, and I agree what I currently have could be better. For one thing, at character conception there is no limitation on Charms (well, other than that one verb thingy); a Charm is a Charm is a Charm. It seems inconsistent to make some distinctions late in the game, as it were. I'll have to look at that.

Good point, too, re: immortality. I think you're right there, too; a rewrite on the front end might handle that nicely.

There are two minor questions I had after reading through it, however.

1:  What is the relationship between aspects and legends in regards to the overture?  To what extent to the aspects and legends need to mesh with the characters goal in order for it to succeed?  What guarantees automatic failure?  You mention this relationship briefly, but it has a lot of depth and deserves to be fleshed out a bit.

Each character states Vistory Conditions for the conflict that are consistent with the charcter's Aspect: "I run away unscathed" (Aspect: A cowardly lion); "I steal the Arkenstone from under the Dragon's nose" (Aspect: An unlikely Burglar); "I humiliate my opponent in a duel, leaving him to wallow in his drowned pride (Aspect: "A haughty blade"). Victory Conditions that aren't consistent with the character's Aspect (the Burglar decapitates the dragon, or the haughty blade cuts a sleeping man's throat) simply don't succeed, or turn out very differently than expected. I suppose there's a fair amount of grey here where the Narrator might have to interpret. Make sense?

2:  In the Finale, who narrates?  The GM?  The victor?  You never actually say.  There are advantages and disadvantages to each.

Ah. VERY good question, and one I had overlooked (or glossed). As written, the Narrator does (that was my intention anyway, and I think that's at least implied in a couple of places in the text):

Note that the winner's Victory Conditions need not be applied literally, but rather serve as a framework which the Narrator will use to adjudicate Defeat.

Of course, I've read several indy games recently where the Player determines Defeat (or the equivalent). I guess I don't have a problem with that philosophically. Somebody has to, and I see nothing wrong with letting the game master, well, do his or her job. In the best of worlds, of course, either the Narrator or the Player would come up with a Defeat, and the other would improve upon it, and the two would pass it back and forth until it was just right. Don't know how to write rule for that tho'.

[hieronymous]

... in your character improvement rules you make general charms cost vastly more then specific ones.  Instead of linking the cost to breadth of the charm, consider linking it to how closely it resembles the characters legend, other charms or in game occurrences.

I've worked the table over, and have simplyfied it somewhat; I think it's more consistent as well. Have a gander:

Once all the above conditions have been met, the Narrator should evaluate the new Charm and assign it a target cumulative Narrative Modifier, using the table below as a guide.


   Tally       New Trait
   +99        Add a new Charm
   +88         Remove a beginning Taboo, one which the character has had since creation
   +66         Alter an existing Charm
   +55         Eliminate a Taboo gained in play
   +44         Alter an existing Taboo
   +33       Underline (add) a new Keyword
   +22         Substitute one Keyword in the Legend for another

[Bill Masek]

Hieronymous,

I like the new advancement table.  I think it captures the essence of character growth in this game much better.   However, I have a couple of recomendations.

Keywords are very powerful.  The more words a character has underlined the more times per game they can take narration.  Thus, the cost to adding another keyword should be much higher then 33.  Note, however, that there is no power difference when it comes to changing a Keyword.  Thus your Substitute cost is good.

Charms, on the other hand, don't actually DO anything.  They allow for a greater breath option during conflicts.  However, each charm provides a near infinite number of options.  (After all, a player is free to narrate anything.)   This is one of the greatest strengths of the game. Altering existing a character's charm does not increase that character's power in anyway.

You've got Taboos just right.

So, at the very least, exchange Add a Keyword with Alter an existing Charm.  I'd also play around with making Add a new Charm cost 66 and Add a new Keyword cost 99.

My recommended chart:

99:  Underline a new Keyword
88:  Remove a beginning Taboo
66:  Add a new Charm.
55:  Eliminate a taboo gained through the adventure
44:  Alter an existing taboo
33:  Alter an existing Charm
22:  Substitute one keyword with another.


One final idea.  What if, instead of paying out of the Narrative Bonus total to add or change the aspects of a character, the values acted as a threshold.  So, once a player reached +47 narration, they would have substituted one keyword for another, Altered an existing charm (assuming you take my recommendation) and altered an existing taboo.

This would make character growth follow the heroes journey model.  At the beginning of their journey they are forced to shift and change.  By the middle they are overcoming the hardships of their journey and growing in power.  In the end they overcome their inner flaws and emerge transformed.

Best,
        Bill

[hieronymous]

Keywords are very powerful.  The more words a character has underlined the more times per game they can take narration.  Thus, the cost to adding another keyword should be much higher then 33 ....{snip}
Charms, on the other hand, don't actually DO anything.  They allow for a greater breath option during conflicts.  However, each charm provides a near infinite number of options.  (After all, a player is free to narrate anything.)   This is one of the greatest strengths of the game.

Altering existing a character's charm does not increase that character's power in anyway.

I disagree. Keywords are pretty limited: can't affect other chartacters directly, are used to change scenery or props basically. And I'd say that Charms really DO do something. Changing a Charm from, say, Performs minor hedge magic to Casts mighty wizard spells, for example, is a legitimate progression for a character, represents an alteration in the Charm, and gives the Player a far greater (note I didn't say better) range of narrative options.

One final idea.  What if, instead of paying out of the Narrative Bonus total to add or change the aspects of a character, the values acted as a threshold.  So, once a player reached +47 narration, they would have substituted one keyword for another, Altered an existing charm (assuming you take my recommendation) and altered an existing taboo.

This would make character growth follow the heroes journey model.  At the beginning of their journey they are forced to shift and change.  By the middle they are overcoming the hardships of their journey and growing in power.  In the end they overcome their inner flaws and emerge transformed.

Arguably the same progression could be said to be possible in the existing system; it just costs more. In the present model what you describe would cost 22 + 33 + 44 = 99, instead of 44. Furthermore, having a "tiered" rather than "cafeteria" progression would force you on a particular growth path, whether it made sense for that character or Tale or not. What is changing a Keyword wasn't relevant?

[Bill Masek]

hieronymous,

I see what you are saying.  Charms, as a group, have more effect on the game then Keywords.

However, as a character aquires more charms, each new charm aquired provides less power (and by "power" I mean the players ability to use that aspect of the character to exert control over the game) then the last.  You can only use so many keywords in a given conflict.

The only advantage to changing a Charm is it opens new areas to explore.  If you are running out of unique things to do with a charm, then changing it helps.  Otherwise it doesn't do anything.  However, if a player is running out of ideas, it seems that you would want them to be able to change easily, to keep the game fresh and fun.

Each keyword, on the other hand, add the same amount of story control.  If I have 3 keywords, I can effect the story 3 times.  If I have 4 keywords I can effect it 4, etc.

Changing keywords has no advantage I can see and is a purely dominated stratigy.  What it adds a bit of flavor, it does nothing else.


You might actualy want a "take keyword" strategy dominante over the "buy Charms" strategy.  More keywords adds more fun.  To many Charms gets less fun the more you have.  But I'd recomend keeping the change charms stratigy fairly cheep.

Sorry about how sloppy this post is.  The server will be down in two minutes.

Hope this gets on there.

Best,
       Bill

[hieronymous]

Has anyone playetested the alternate Conflict rules I posted earleir in this thread?