[Shock:] Request for feedback

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Shock: Social Science Fiction has just gotten to its coming out party at the tender age of 0.1.0.

You can download it here</a>. I should very much like feedback on it, either here or over at the [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?board=56.0]glyphpress forum.

Thanks, folks!

[TonyLB]

That's some cool mojo there.

I think that, honestly, you may need a whole section on "Why this game doesn't have mechanics for doing boring dreck that's totally off-theme."  The game will do precisely and only what it's intended to do, and that will clash pretty hard with the assumptions of blue-sky RPG players.

"Sure, the two Praxis are 'Violence vs. Empathy' and 'Self-awareness vs. Lying' ... but I want to have my character show that they're really intelligent, like Star Trek smart.  Is that Self-Awareness?"

[CSBone]

Would you please present a sample of play? This style of play is so far outside my regular playing paradygm, I'm a little too lost to comment...but I'd like to. The possiblity of playing a game based on the social ramifications of science fiction environments gets my motor running.

C. S. Bone

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Welcome to the Forge, C.S.!

I'm very interested in ways that can make this game clearer, so please stick around even if I'm being oblique. I promise it's not on purpose.

Um, lemme give you an overview of play because it will be much easier than making a whole little sketch.

I. Make the world
   1. Set down some ground rules about the world: The far future or today? Area 51? Outer space? Giant robots? Psychedelia?
   2. Make the Shock/Issue grid - What matters to the players (Issue)? Through what lens are we going to look at it? (Shock)
   3. Decide on the Praxis Scales - How do people solve problems in this world?

II. Make Protagonists
   1. Place your Protag at the crux of a Shock and an Issue. - This will define both your Protagonist and your Antagonist.
   2. Decide where your Protag falls on the Praxis Scales.
   3. Write down at least one and no more than three of your Traits. - e.g. "I have a gun - coersion 1" or "I'm very handsome. - commerce 2" *
   4. Note at least one and no more than three Relationships. - e.g. "Alexa Duursh, my boss" or "Boku, C.S.'s Protagonist, the policeman." *
   5. Put four coins down on the Protagonist side of your Player Sheet.**
III. Make Antagonists
   1. For each Protagonist, there is an Antagonist at the same cross-point on the Shock/Issue Grid. No one can play two Antagonists and no one can play their own.
   2. The Antagonist Player now has control of this character from the basic sketch the Protagonist Player has given hir.
   3. Determine at least one but no more than five Traits for the Antagonist.
   4. Put five coins down on the Antagonist side of your Player Sheet.***

IV. Start the story
   1. The first player declares Story Stakes for hir Protagonist.
      A. The Antagonist Player provides opposition to the Protagonist. To be clear: the duties for producing opposition to each Protagonist fall to that Protagonist's Antagonist's Player. That player has a Protagonist of hir own, but who doesn't particularly matter in this scene.
   2. Either *Tagonist can declare the stakes for a conflict.

V. Moment-to-moment play
   1. Declare stakes in the conflict. - what the *Tagonists want to risk, e.g. "I either go with my daughter to her meeting, or she won't talk to me again."
   2. The Protag player says which end of which Praxis Scale sHe want to be a success and rolls, bidding to bring in a Trait, if desired.
      A. If the roll is off the scale, the Protag Player automatically wins unless the Antag Player can bid it down in one bid.
   3. The Antag Player then puts as many coins down as the Protag Player has put down, then can narrate what sHe's doing and bid more coins (at least one) for a Trait to bring in to substantiate that action.
      A. Each Trait changes the die roll in the direction and number indicated by the Trait.
   4. The Protag Player then does the same, back and forth.
   5. Eventually, either one player has run out of coins or the issue has been settled to both parties' satisfaction.
      A. If the Protagonist succeeds, hir Player wins the Stakes of the Conflict.
      B. The loser of the Conflict gets all coins used in the Conflict.

VI. Between Episodes
   1. Take one of these:
      A. Take a new, or add 1 to an existing, Trait and Relationship 
      B. Move your Praxis Scale numbers.
   2. Decide if the next episode will be the last episode of the Protagonist's story, determining the fate of the Story Stakes. This shouldn't be much more than three episodes since the last story ended, and single episodes are viable as stories.

VII. Between Stories
   1. Take one of these
      A. Take a new Trait or add one to an existing Trait.
      B. Move either your Shock or your Issue.

VIII.

* These are likely to become four, rather than three. Please give feedback about this.
** Likewise, the Protagonist will probably start with five, instead of four, coins.
*** ... and the Antagonist will start with Six. All these numbers require a lot of playtesting, so I'd really like to know your experiences.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

(I'm really blowin' it on the tags here, aren't I?)

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

That's some cool mojo there.

I think that, honestly, you may need a whole section on "Why this game doesn't have mechanics for doing boring dreck that's totally off-theme."  The game will do precisely and only what it's intended to do, and that will clash pretty hard with the assumptions of blue-sky RPG players.

"Sure, the two Praxis are 'Violence vs. Empathy' and 'Self-awareness vs. Lying' ... but I want to have my character show that they're really intelligent, like Star Trek smart.  Is that Self-Awareness?"

I dunno, Tony. I think that's cool. Just a little awkward, I suppose. But if you want a character whose intelligence is in the form of Self-Awareness, that's great. If the dude wanted a character who was super-smart, like can do calculations in his head smart and doesn't want to apply it toward, say, Lying, then it's more of a character note than a Trait. Like, wasn't Geordi's thing really that he was a nice guy, not that he was super-smart? Super-smart was his job, sure, but it really didn't effect his character.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

I think that, honestly, you may need a whole section on "Why this game doesn't have mechanics for doing boring dreck that's totally off-theme."  The game will do precisely and only what it's intended to do, and that will clash pretty hard with the assumptions of blue-sky RPG players.

You know, despite my normally snotty and elitist nature, I'm trying to not be too negative. I put all that crabbiness into the intro, where it kinda says that. That intro is unlikely to make it to the 1.0, though. It'll likely be something more positive.

I'm inclined to think that, if it needs to be said, it can be said in a sentence or two.

[CSBone]

Joshua I got all that. Actually your .pdf is pretty well laid out.

My question was more in the vein of:

Could you take an illustrative story, perhaps Heinlein's short story from "The Green Hills of Earth" "The Long Watch" and show how your system would allow someone to explore it's social themes in an RPG environment.

Any story would do, I just chose the "Long Watch" because I've done other games with the plot and the message remains particularly poigniant to me.

My problem lies not in the description of the mechanics of the system but in the implementation during a session.

I can definately see how your Praxis Scales and World Diagram could be some great GM tools, I'm just not sure how I'd use them to play a character.

Could be I'm just too stuck yet in a different paradygm.

[Graham W]

All right. I'm not completely sure about this. Let me go through it step by step.

So...

1. Set down some ground rules about the world: The far future or today? Area 51? Outer space? Giant robots? Psychedelia?

All right. It's a Bladerunner-esque near future, all dirty cities and neon lights.

2. Make the Shock/Issue grid - What matters to the players (Issue)? Through what lens are we going to look at it?

All right. So let's say I want education as the issue (because that's in the papers today). Specifically, the idea of an uneducated underclass.

So...hang on, I'm stuck. Do I decide the Shock in response to the Issue or do I decide the two independently and just see how they collide? Let's say I decide the Shock in response to the issue, so the Shock is going to be...let's call it Shepherding. All the people that can't write are kept in camps and forced to do manual labour.

3. Decide on the Praxis Scales - How do people solve problems in this world?

Let's say: Education / Creativity
Class / Street Smarts

How's this so far? Stop me any time.

II. Make Protagonists
   1. Place your Protag at the crux of a Shock and an Issue. - This will define both your Protagonist and your Antagonist.

Fine. Jed is one of the Shepherded underclass - he's a dirty street-kid who draws beautiful graffiti.

2. Decide where your Protag falls on the Praxis Scales.

Creativity 8, Street Smarts 6, say.

I'll skip the traits stuff. It looks straightforward enough.

That thing about the four coins - was that actually in the PDF? I must have missed it.

1. For each Protagonist, there is an Antagonist at the same cross-point on the Shock/Issue Grid. No one can play two Antagonists and no one can play their own.

Let's call the Antagonist "The Shepherd". He's going to control all these manual labour camps on behalf of a multinational corporation.

1. The first player declares Story Stakes for hir Protagonist.

Something like: Jed wants to escape and make his way to another city.

Was that what you expected or have I misinterpreted somewhere?

So, now what happens? The Protagonist sets up a scene? Throughout that scene, is the Antagonist acting as a GM-like figure, describing the environment in any way? Or do we collaboratively build up the scene? And, if there's other players, do they just watch or can they join in, playing NPCs?

And we get to a conflict of some kind. (Presumably it won't directly be Jed against The Shepherd all the time, it'll be Jed against The Shepherd's forces and defences). After that conflict, do we move on to the next Protagonist, or do we wait until the scene has ended? Should the next Protagonist have a story connected with Jed's story or can it be totally separate? Do we try to bring all the stories to an end together?

It's a very beautiful game, so if you could clear up those points, I'd be very interested.

Graham

[Judd]

What is written below should really be directly in the text of the game.

Um, lemme give you an overview of play because it will be much easier than making a whole little sketch.

I. Make the world
   1. Set down some ground rules about the world: The far future or today? Area 51? Outer space? Giant robots? Psychedelia?
   2. Make the Shock/Issue grid - What matters to the players (Issue)? Through what lens are we going to look at it? (Shock)
   3. Decide on the Praxis Scales - How do people solve problems in this world?

II. Make Protagonists
   1. Place your Protag at the crux of a Shock and an Issue. - This will define both your Protagonist and your Antagonist.
   2. Decide where your Protag falls on the Praxis Scales.
   3. Write down at least one and no more than three of your Traits. - e.g. "I have a gun - coersion 1" or "I'm very handsome. - commerce 2" *
   4. Note at least one and no more than three Relationships. - e.g. "Alexa Duursh, my boss" or "Boku, C.S.'s Protagonist, the policeman." *
   5. Put four coins down on the Protagonist side of your Player Sheet.**
III. Make Antagonists
   1. For each Protagonist, there is an Antagonist at the same cross-point on the Shock/Issue Grid. No one can play two Antagonists and no one can play their own.
   2. The Antagonist Player now has control of this character from the basic sketch the Protagonist Player has given hir.
   3. Determine at least one but no more than five Traits for the Antagonist.
   4. Put five coins down on the Antagonist side of your Player Sheet.***

IV. Start the story
   1. The first player declares Story Stakes for hir Protagonist.
      A. The Antagonist Player provides opposition to the Protagonist. To be clear: the duties for producing opposition to each Protagonist fall to that Protagonist's Antagonist's Player. That player has a Protagonist of hir own, but who doesn't particularly matter in this scene.
   2. Either *Tagonist can declare the stakes for a conflict.

V. Moment-to-moment play
   1. Declare stakes in the conflict. - what the *Tagonists want to risk, e.g. "I either go with my daughter to her meeting, or she won't talk to me again."
   2. The Protag player says which end of which Praxis Scale sHe want to be a success and rolls, bidding to bring in a Trait, if desired.
      A. If the roll is off the scale, the Protag Player automatically wins unless the Antag Player can bid it down in one bid.
   3. The Antag Player then puts as many coins down as the Protag Player has put down, then can narrate what sHe's doing and bid more coins (at least one) for a Trait to bring in to substantiate that action.
      A. Each Trait changes the die roll in the direction and number indicated by the Trait.
   4. The Protag Player then does the same, back and forth.
   5. Eventually, either one player has run out of coins or the issue has been settled to both parties' satisfaction.
      A. If the Protagonist succeeds, hir Player wins the Stakes of the Conflict.
      B. The loser of the Conflict gets all coins used in the Conflict.

VI. Between Episodes
   1. Take one of these:
      A. Take a new, or add 1 to an existing, Trait and Relationship 
      B. Move your Praxis Scale numbers.
   2. Decide if the next episode will be the last episode of the Protagonist's story, determining the fate of the Story Stakes. This shouldn't be much more than three episodes since the last story ended, and single episodes are viable as stories.

VII. Between Stories
   1. Take one of these
      A. Take a new Trait or add one to an existing Trait.
      B. Move either your Shock or your Issue.

VIII.

* These are likely to become four, rather than three. Please give feedback about this.
** Likewise, the Protagonist will probably start with five, instead of four, coins.
*** ... and the Antagonist will start with Six. All these numbers require a lot of playtesting, so I'd really like to know your experiences.

[Mikael]

Hello Joshua

I must admit I am only half-way through your PDF, but I wanted to put in some comments now when they are fresh on my mind.

"I liked" section:
Issue/Shock matrix and the Praxis scales. Your intro at the beginning, explaining the aim of your design in terms that felt relevant for me. The fact that your PDF reformatted itself nicely on my PDA.

"Typo" section, I think:
- In two consecutive sentences you state that Antagonists can have Traits and Relationships and that they can only have Traits.

"Please explain more" section:
- Something more should be said in terms of Antagonist creation. I guess it's all clear to you, but I missed some guidelines on the order of Antagonist creation and placement on the matrix. Comments like "the same Antagonist can appear on several places on the matrix" are a bit confusing on first read - is the Antagonist then the same Antagonist, played by the same player, or two different "versions", played by two different players?

"Feels like here there should be some more rules" section:
- To me it feels like there should be some connection between the Shock/Issue matrix and the Praxis scales. (Perhaps there is, in the Conflict section. I did not get that far.) Feels a bit stupid, since I do not know what kind of connection would be most useful, but in "game design aesthetic terms" the game would feel more complete that way.

"Just a stupid question" section:
- What makes the mechanics especially suitable for exploring contemporary/old issues through the strangeness of new science? What would prevent using the exact same rules for a fantasy game, as long as the focus was on examining specific issues?

There's them quickies, back for more later.

Cheers,
+ Mikael

[Mikael]

...
   2. The Protag player says which end of which Praxis Scale sHe want to be a success and rolls, bidding to bring in a Trait, if desired.
...
      A. If the Protagonist succeeds, hir Player wins the Stakes of the Conflict.
...

Oh yes, in the "Matters of taste" section:
"hir" and "sHe": while these might be very "Science Fiction", not to mention politically correct, they are just a pain to read and take attention away from the content of the text. Suggest consistent use of either the male or female pronoun, or just total randomness.

Cheers,
+ Mikael, whose native language does not have separate pronouns for the two genders anyway

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

What is written below should really be directly in the text of the game.

That occurred to me as I was writing it. I gotta figure out where it should go, though. I'm inclined to think that it should go on the back of the character sheet, but maybe it should be at the beginning, as an overview.

Thoughts?

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

(I'm composing answers to the most complex questions offline and will be back as soon as I have something coherent.)

[Graham W]

That occurred to me as I was writing it. I gotta figure out where it should go, though. I'm inclined to think that it should go on the back of the character sheet, but maybe it should be at the beginning, as an overview.

Thoughts?

I think: at the end of the rules section. As I remember, Dogs In The Vineyard does something similar.

Not at the beginning, because it's too confusing before you know what the terms mean. On the back of the character sheet would be good too.

On the "hir" and "sHe": I didn't find it made the text any harder to read and I thought it fitted the tone of the game well. In any other game text, I'd find it interesting, but there's something very futuristic about those terms, so I liked them.

Graham