Comb vs. Paperback

[Matt Snyder]

We should have an interesting test case with Nine Worlds. Nine Worlds is now out in perfect bound. Previously, it was available in comb binding. I offer a 40% discount on the new edition to anyone who purchased the comb-bound version. About 4-5 people have taken advantage of this offer.

I'd love to hear how they think the two texts compare. I'm pretty certain at least ONE customer has the exact same version of the text with both bindings, and I probably will inquire with him.

[Roland.of.Gilead]

There is a middle ground:

Metal Combs.

They hold up best out of all your lower cost bindery options and, IMHOAAPQP (In My Humble Opinion As A Professional Quick Printer) are best suited to the Indy RPG format.

[Matt Snyder]

I never knew they existed. Can you explain more, or point to some links perhaps?

[Andrew Morris]

If you're talking about the same metal combs I've seen, they don't hold up very well over time, as they tend to get bent out of shape.

[Roland.of.Gilead]

I never knew they existed. Can you explain more, or point to some links perhaps?

A quick search came up with this:

http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/item-gbc9665300.html

Here's my take on the standard options available from a quick printer.

Plastic comb: Meant for school projects. Prone to falling apart since it's not truly secured. The only form of quick binding which pages can easily be added to post production because it's unsecured .(i.e. nothing is holding the pages into the comb except the week force of the comb it's self)

Perfect Binding: Looks good, will impress at first glance. Reality: The glue used to secure the spine is ...well... just glue. Hard glue is not pliable, it's ridged, and it cracks and degrades very quickly. Basically this form of binding is used when you want to impress yet the utility of the document is short term.

Metal comb: Secured by design; it is not easy to pry open these combs, believe me! Doesn’t look cheep but also doesn’t have the instant appeal of a prefect bind.


Then again it's all about the bottom line.

In the long run people will appreciate the Metal Comb better and curse you when the Perfect Bind falls apart. In the short term people will buy the Perfect bind and laugh at the Metal Comb as being unprofessional unless something has made them aware of the quality difference.

________________________________________________________
Marcus Lake

[Andrew Morris]

A quick search came up with this:

http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/item-gbc9665300.html

Yeah, this is what we use in our office for proposals. These bindings will degrade fairly quickly. The metal deforms easily. Also, they don't always give a secure hold initially -- pages can tear and fall out if the binding is not done just right.

[Roland.of.Gilead]

True, there is some variance in the quality of these combs (you might also find it under wire binding), and I can't vouch for the ones in the link. The ones I have used in the past have been of excellent quality. As for the binding not being done right, switch printers if this happens more than a few times.

Book binding (Case bound) is the best option for a book.

If this option is cost prohibitive...

[madelf]

Perfect Binding: Looks good, will impress at first glance. Reality: The glue used to secure the spine is ...well... just glue. Hard glue is not pliable, it's ridged, and it cracks and degrades very quickly. Basically this form of binding is used when you want to impress yet the utility of the document is short term.

They should be using flexible glue. Some types of glue will remain flexible for just about forever. I've got perfect-bound books older than I am (and I'm 38) that are still in one piece. The books are showing their age, certainly, but the binding is still in good shape. ('course I've got hardcovers only a few years old that are falling apart too, it's all in the quality of the individual book as far as I can tell)

[Matt Snyder]

Ah! I recognize these now. Thanks.

[Roland.of.Gilead]

They should be using flexible glue. Some types of glue will remain flexible for just about forever. I've got perfect-bound books older than I am (and I'm 38) that are still in one piece. The books are showing their age, certainly, but the binding is still in good shape. ('course I've got hardcovers only a few years old that are falling apart too, it's all in the quality of the individual book as far as I can tell)

Well, I should have mentioned quality of perfect binding varies as well.  There are several way it can be accomplished but, the most common you'll run into in the quick printing industry looks something like this http://www.rosbackcompany.com/850_visual_features.htm.

The glue is meant to be flexible but, quickly ruins when the machine is left on too long. One tail tell sign of this is yellowing of the glue (it should be white).

Maybe I should take another set back and let you consider this:

Printing is just like anything else, there are varying degrees of quality at all steps of the process. Real ink is better than toner, there is a difference between high quality milled paper and run of the mill copy paper, and a $50,000.00 high capacity "paperback" perfect binder is going to perform better than a $16,000.00 short run "on-demand" model.

So all I'm saying is, off the cuff I would chouse average metal combs over average perfect binding. If you'd seen the things go wrong that I have, I'm betting you would too.

Marcus Lake

[madelf]

So all I'm saying is, off the cuff I would chouse average metal combs over average perfect binding. If you'd seen the things go wrong that I have, I'm betting you would too.

Beyond watching a brand new book fall apart in my hands? Because I've certainly seen that.

I'd still flat-staple a stack of pages and hand glue a strip around the edge before I'd use ring or comb binding. A book that looks like an inter-office report just turns me off, so if it's going to look crappy anyway, it might as well be cheap as dirt to produce, and something I can do with the tools at hand (and, actually, that book would probably never fall apart).

Some things simply look shoddy, even if they aren't (I honestly don't know how the wire binding for books holds up, as I've never run into it). Considering that they aren't the standard binding method for the mainstream book market, I suspect most people feel the same way. There's a perception (correct or not) that paperback books are okay, hardcover books are better, and the other stuff isn't a real book. It's a perception I'd keep in mind when deciding how to format a book I wanted to sell. I really think people who prefer coil & comb binding are a tiny minority.

[Roland.of.Gilead]

[quote author=Roland.of.Gilead link=topic=17550.msg188040#msg188040 date=1133366434
Then again it's all about the bottom line.

In the long run people will appreciate the Metal Comb better and curse you when the Perfect Bind falls apart. In the short term people will buy the Perfect bind and laugh at the Metal Comb as being unprofessional unless something has made them aware of the quality difference.

... That's as I said. If you really want to avoid this issue all together, you simply need to do larger runs with larger companies. It's the only real solution to maintain the quality, appearance, and cost.

That being said, any book only looks as good as you design it to. If your designing books meant for print with out regard for how they are to be printed.... well good luck.