Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Mike Holmes, November 30, 2005, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: talysman on November 30, 2005, 04:59:07 PMah, yeah... they deny part of themselves and their right to total control in order to affirm the illusion of the Fiction as an independent entity, an extra "player" at the table. Sim play often has patches of discussion about "what is realistic" in terms of the Fiction because, when one player makes a statement that is stretching the Fiction too much, everyone has to reach an agreement about how much they are willing to stretch this part of the Fiction. the danger lies in arguing too much or too long, because then it turns from a discussion about an impersonal object (the Fiction) into personal issues (what resonates for me versus what resonates for you, and my interpersonal skills that I will use on the group to get my way.)
Quote from: GreatWolf on November 30, 2005, 05:21:33 PMAnd that makes me wonder if a good Sim game needs to address this issue head-on. Rather than just providing tons of setting information (in an attempt to nail down the Fiction in the game text), perhaps a solid Sim design also needs to incorporate methods of assisting the players in negotiating and establishing the Fiction, both before play and during play, as conflicts arise.
Quote from: talysman on November 30, 2005, 05:27:48 PMthat's part of the reason behind Dispute Rolls in Serpentine Thunder, although I state outright in the rules that if the group doesn't agree on what's *possible*, the play should stop right there, because there's a problem with the social contract. probably not the best approach, but I didn't really see Dispute Rolls as being useful in the case of extreme disagreements.
Quote from: Mike Holmes on November 30, 2005, 02:13:39 PMSo, could I get a terminological concession here? I think that Constructive Constraint sound much more positive, and would be less prone to misinterpretation based on the connotations of it's constituent terms. Uh, basically I don't want to have to explain a thousand times that denial is a positive thing here. Mike
QuoteIn some respects, Universalis already does this by giving bonuses to Challenges that are supported by previously establishes Tenets. Hmm. There might be something useful there to consider....
Quote from: Artanis on November 30, 2005, 06:14:42 PMI thought I was getting somewhere near to understanding what was being talked about, but then Seth brought the example of Scrabble, which is probably closest to Gamist if any comparison can be drawn. But I think his point is valid still.
Quote from: talysman on November 30, 2005, 06:49:52 PMSeth is only using choice of dictionary in Scrabble as an example. don't worry about whether Scrabble is really like Sim RPGs.
Quotepart of the problem, though, may be that Seth talked a lot about choosing what's canon in regards to the Fiction, but didn't stress the fact that the Fiction is not the canon. if I say "let's play a Star Trek game based on the three seasons of original Trek only", I'm suggesting a canon as a jumping-off point for the Fiction, but I and the other players are going to have slightly different interpretations of what the events of the canon mean; plus, as we play, we're creating additional elements of the Fiction.