Preparing to revise.

[Levi Kornelsen]

This is a game of mine which I'm thinking of revising again to make it more of an RPG again, and less of an Adventure game (the direction I was taking it on it's last revision).  Rather than bodge up my terms, I'd rather simply put in front of everyone here, and ask:

I'm completely open to pretty much whatever advice you're in the mood to toss my way; got any thoughts?

http://members.shaw.ca/LeviK/8bitDungeon.pdf

[Malckuss]

I'll take it with me to work and give it a good, thourough analizing. I like the premise so far, and I would suggest you keep it simple. (I am baised though, as I see simpler games being more flexible, fast, and accomadating to more people. I will give you a more detailed viewpoint sometime tommorow. ( I work third shift)

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Well, the version you have now, is a pretty good representation of the genre. The question is, what do you mean by more of an RPG?
  You have a working mechanic here and it seems sufficient to play, players who love this kind of computer game will love this system.
  Mechanically, I feel like there is a LOT of luck involved in this system. You roll to see how many times you can use your power and when you use it, you roll to see how well it works. I can totally see some poor player rolling a one to determine how many powers they get and then getting a one the only time they get to use it, lol
  I guess to make it more of a role playing game you need to find a way to encourage character interaction. Maybe a background system to develop the characters' motivations, allies and enemies. Or social system that recreates the fierce rivalries, unshakable romances and unbridled hostility that these games always feature.
  That's my two cents, no change please...

[Levi Kornelsen]

I guess to make it more of a role playing game you need to find a way to encourage character interaction. Maybe a background system to develop the characters' motivations, allies and enemies. Or social system that recreates the fierce rivalries, unshakable romances and unbridled hostility that these games always feature.

...You may be on to something.  In very vague terms, I'm thinking of adding a "scene" mechanism, in which the players speak in character, with specific set motives and goals; the things you're talking about might provide good goals.

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Well, if you want to stay in genre, you could have characters pick from a list like this:
:-)
Friendly - Uses Run ability to get in a character's good graces. The player says their piece, spends the point and the GM determines how well they pull it off

...
Uncertain - Uses Think Ability to understand the other charater's motives. The character spends the Think point and listens intently as the other character spills his guts.

???
Quizical - The player asks there question and depending on their standing with the other character, they might even get an answer.

!!!
Hostile - Uses Fight Ability to intimidate or coerce other characters. Players say what they will do that is threatening and rolls fight die. Depending on the roll, the other character may squeal, surrender, freeze in fear or run like a chicken.

  Just an idea...

[sayter]

Granted, I didn't read the entire PDF, but enough to know the gist of it.

What about allowing characters to "multi-class" a la FF2 and 3, where they could select new "Jobs" as they went up in levels? These additional Job choices could allow them a little more diversity, and to some degree minimize the whining that might arise from the bad luck of getting 1's on rolls?

Not sure you want it to go in this direction of course, given the already comic feel of the game. a 1 would be quite a humorous outcome of a roll especially if every other party member rolls a 6. This would also, I suppose, mimic the feel of the platform RPG to a degree, where certain characters are just never as useful as others or are prone to bad events happening to them in-game.

[Levi Kornelsen]

What about allowing characters to "multi-class" a la FF2 and 3, where they could select new "Jobs" as they went up in levels?

I think I've already done what you're talking about. 

From the shopping list:

SKILLS: You can buy the special rolls that other adventurers get (Heroism, Black Magic, and so on); these are bought at 1d4, and your level doesn't add to them. They get more expensive the more you have.

Or, did you have something more extensive in mind?

[Levi Kornelsen]

Well, if you want to stay in genre, you could have characters pick from a list like this:

That would be a lot of fun, mind you, but I'd actually like to find a good reason for players to spend at least a little time speaking in-character - and without breaking the 'feel' of the game, if it can be done.

[TonyLB]

Oh, I hoped and hoped when I saw the title (while the PDF was loading) that this would be about the web-comic.  So thank you!

Are you trying to support the same sort of humorous interactions that define the comic?  Because you've got an awful lot of rules about monsters, given how seldom fighting the monsters actually ... y'know ... matters in the comic.  Whereas you're a bit shy on social combat rules (in fact, the comic they're showing today (though maybe not by the time people read this post) is all about social combat).  I totally agree that you want to encourage people to think up their own humorous dialogue, but a good system can support and encourage that activity rather than replace it ... if, y'know, that's what you're aiming for.

Anyway, I'm excited about this, but I want to hold off on dumping too many ideas on you until I know what your design goals are for the game.

[Levi Kornelsen]

Oh, I hoped and hoped when I saw the title (while the PDF was loading) that this would be about the web-comic.  So thank you!

You're most welcome!  Though, really, what I've been aiming for - most of the time - is to actually simulate (not necessarily in the Forge sense of the word, but maybe) the original 8-Bit dungeon games.  I want players to feel like they're actually *in* that kind of slightly-nonsensical world in as many ways as possible.

I do, however, want to keep that vein of humor in a lot of ways - the response of the writer from the comic when I wrote to ask him about using jokes based on his comic was "Go for it!", and that's too good an opportunity to pass up.

I'd like to portray the webcomic's version of party interaction as a completely dysfunctional adventuring party within the game, but I wouldn't at all mind having it still be something entirely possible at the same time.

I'm not sure if that's a clear statement or not, though.

[Mark Woodhouse]

One thing that might add some interpersonal juice while still keeping the flavor... a shared resource or two. Are you familiar with The Mountain Witch? 8-bit seems like it might do with a Trust-like thing that can be used to either help or hurt your fellow party members. Maybe an Alignment stat could figure in here?

[Levi Kornelsen]

One thing that might add some interpersonal juice while still keeping the flavor... a shared resource or two. Are you familiar with The Mountain Witch? 8-bit seems like it might do with a Trust-like thing that can be used to either help or hurt your fellow party members. Maybe an Alignment stat could figure in here?

...!

I've heard a bit about, but not read, The Mountain Witch.

However, from the scant bits that I have heard, and your statement I suspect you're talking about exactly the kind of thing I want.

Any chance you could expand on this idea a bit?

[Mark Woodhouse]

In TMW, between chapters, players assign a numeric value for how much Trust they have for each other character. Starting Trust levels are determined by characters' Zodiac signs, so the D&D 9-alignment system is a good analog.

Trust can either be used to Aid the character who Trusts you (add a bonus to their conflict rolls) or to Betray them (penalize their conflict roll) - there are some tricks with narration rights, too, but they're probably not relevant.

Between chapters (for 8-bit, probably between adventures), you can either add 1 to your Trust for another character, keep it the same, or drop it by any amount.

It sounds incredibly simple, but it really drives a neat dynamic that feels a lot like the "band of psychopathic outlaws" model of the classic D&D party.

[Levi Kornelsen]

I'll probably be completely changing that into something else by the time I'm done, but that's a great place to start thinking from.

Thanks!

If anyone else has any other thoughts, feel free!

[Sean]

I think that Ron Edwards' Elfs and possibly Jack Aidley's Great Ork Gods might be helpful to you as well. Elfs in particular is all about making the dysfunctional party of adventurers in the fictional world be the product of a functional play experience among the players.

That said, I read your game the first time I saw it in your sig at rpg.net, and it made me smile, but I didn't know exactly what I'd do with it, you know what I mean?

Nonsensical...a good random encounter table might help with that. Like the one that has bacon, eggs, and toast attack you in one of the old Judges Guild products, maybe.