[DitV] "...without resorting to violence."

[lumpley]

It's not problematic.

You aren't allowed to make a raise that would decide the stakes all by itself. If the stakes are "who draws first?" then you aren't allowed to raise "I draw first!" If the stakes are "I hope I don't jump out the window," then you aren't allowed to raise "I jump out the window." If the stakes are "I hope I don't use violence," then you aren't allowed to raise "I use violence." Easy as that.

Yes, this means that you won't be allowed to escalate during this conflict. That's life.

For this reason, I encourage you - just encourage, not require - to leave escalation out of the stakes, for your own benefit, whenever it's reasonable to do so - which isn't always. When you do have escalation in your stakes, that's perfectly nonproblematic, you just play by the rule that says "don't make a raise that resolves the stakes outright."

-Vincent

[Jason Newquist]

Lightbulbs.  Thanks, V.

By the way, Tony -- those stakes about learning that violence doesn't prove anything? The players in my group were following this thread, and our eyes all lit up and we went "oooo."  Terrific.

[Brian Newman]

"Resorting to violence" to me talks about the Raises.  You can Escalate without ever being violent -- drawing your gun and threatening someone with them isn't necessarily "violence".  Shooting them is.  But shooting is the result of a Raise.  It's all about the consequences.  If you Escalate to Gunplay by drawing your gun and pointing it at them, and they Take the Blow, your gun went off.  If you didn't want to deal with those possible consequences, you shouldn't have Escalated.  You probably should have Given.

[Jason Newquist]

My understanding, as was mentioned upthread, is that drawing your gun isn't escalating to gunplay, but it DOES bring your gun's belonging dice into play.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember reading this in the book.

[Brian Newman]

You're right, I stand corrected.

[Simon Kamber]

If you use such stakes, it's important to figure out which part of the sentence is actually important.

When I read stakes like "I hope I solve the conflict without resorting to violence", particularly as an initiation, the conflict I see is the "... without resorting to violence". That the dog will solve the conflict isn't important. So, the way I see it, if the player gives he doesn't fail to solve the conflict, he just fails to do it without violence.

[lumpley]

Simon, me too.

"I give, dammit. I shoot him in the head."

-Vincent