[Humanity Beyond Earth] A nar/sim transhuman space opera.

[Elliott Belser]

I'd like to make a game that balances Narrativist and Simulationist issues - I'm making this game with a bunch of Simmies, and I'm a Narrie mostly: we've discussed the theory on the Forge and agreed that the Nar elements can only help.  We're also making a bunch of other settings: making the system primarily Narrativist will help us port it and tweak it to simulating other worlds.

The other lead designer of this thing wants "Dramatic tea parties," I.E. interesting and fun social interaction, to be fully supported and enhanced by the rules.  To me, that means rolling dice makes it more interesting.

Transhuman themes and space opera are two of my favorite things, so I'm going to make a transhuman space opera - Miles Vorkosigan is a major influence, as will be Schismatrix when I get my hands on it, and the Ghost in the Shell manga.  The question I'm asking is "How does technology change how humans interact?"

We eventually hope to publish in PDF format; if the game takes off, dead tree format is a remote possibility.

So anyway, onto the mechanics and world. 

The game will have a game master, support campaign play (and strongly advise leaving it to 10 sessions tops) and have experience point awards.

You pick two archetypes to create a character: a Culture and a Class (or occupation, or whatever).  There are five cultures we plan on detailing. The New Earthers eschew transhuman tech; the Network can't live without constant interaction through computer implants; the Principality is made up of human noblemen lording over robotic (and bioroid?) serfs, the Leauge are techno-anarchists; and Those Who Learned genetically alter themselves rather than terraform planets.  The classes specialize in Combat, Technical, Rogue (yech, I need a better name) and Diplomatic skills: You get a certian number of skills as "favored," allowing you to purchase them with experience for cheaper, including all of your "class" skills.

Characters will be mostly defined by Motivations.  These one-sentence, player defined personal idioms are measured in thier Intensity and Frequency: the Frequency is how often the player can say they're participating in a scene because of that Motivation, the Intensity allows you to bend the rules a little, letting you re-roll key dice rolls, heal wounds, that sorta thing. 

They also have 8 Stats: Agility, Stamina, Reason, Perception, Charisma, Composture, Inspiration/Intuition (not sure what to call it), and Will, rolled in a dice pool with a skill in a conflict resolution system.

A player spends temporary points in Motivation Frequency to say thier character is part of a scene... and why.   I haven't worked out scene creation beyond that, and would appreciate any advice you can give.  Once you've spent all your points in Frequency of all Motivations, they instantly refresh.

"Say yes or roll dice" is key to the system.  A player will say, "I am willing to risk this happening, so that this happens using this skill," and after discussion, the GM will set a difficulty and an appropriate stat.  The GM can say that the skill is inappropriate and suggest another one.  For example,

Player: "I want to follow that pirate vessel." 
GM: "You'll need to roll for it." 
Player:"I plot a new course using Academics (Navigation) - if I fail then the ship will spot me." 
GM: "Sounds fine to me.  Roll 3 or more successes with Reason + Academics." 

You usually start by risking your dignity in some way.  If you fail, you may choose to re-roll with more dice by risking a reversal of fortune.  Then you can risk some sort of actual harm.  Finally, you may risk your destruction (not always death).  The catch?  They get more dice too if they choose to counter in kind.  You may, if it's appropriate, spend a point of temporary Motivation Intensity to immediatley raise or lower the stakes by one level.

Once the scene has ended, you'll have new goals: you'll get a big fat reward for fulfilling a Motivation, based on it's Intensity, at this point.  Which leads to new motivations, to new Scenes, to new...

Comments and suggestions?

[xenopulse]

Welcome to the Forge, Elliot.

This is a great first stab at a game.  It seems like you know where you're going, and you've found several good tools and rule patterns to get there already.  I do have a couple of questions and concerns:

a) Class and Culture. You don't really state whether the Culture has the same effect as the class (make skills cheaper), or give permanent bonuses, or whatnot.  However, I'm afraid that using these like species/class in a D&D way will help neither your Sim nor your Nar interests.  This is especially true if certain combinations are obviously better than others, e.g., people from the Principality will always make better diplomats than anyone else.  As I can see it, the primary means of having story influence within a scene is the use of skills, so you would punish players of unusual yet interesting characters by having their skills be lower than those of typical combinations.  It will also give a wrong signal regarding play style (incentive to min-max; players will think this game is about making the most effective combinations).

b) I like Motivations and that the reward is tied into them.  The only comment I have is that you will probably have every player try to be part of every single scene because that's the way to gain rewards.  You *could* say that Motivations only refresh for everyone once they are used up for all of them, but there might be other ways to handle it (or you might like it as it is).

c) Raising stakes for re-rolls, also a good thing (one of Ron's innovations in Trollbabe, I believe).  My question here is how it interrelates with your initial stake-setting procedure.  The player first determines the scope of the task, which then leads the GM to propose a difficulty.  Now both sides can apparently escalate, so... there might be additional bad effects for the other side that the player didn't want to inflict just because the GM wants more dice.  Something about that seems... dangerous to me.  I think you need to playtest this very carefully to see if this doesn't interfere with the players setting stakes.

So, thanks for sharing, and good luck with the design :)

[tygertyger]

I'd like to make a game that balances Narrativist and Simulationist issues

Good luck!  This is a worthy goal, and I look forward to seeing the end result.

Transhuman themes and space opera are two of my favorite things, so I'm going to make a transhuman space opera - Miles Vorkosigan is a major influence, as will be Schismatrix when I get my hands on it, and the Ghost in the Shell manga.  The question I'm asking is "How does technology change how humans interact?"

Check out the Orion's Arm (www.orionsarm.com) creative commons project.  Transhumanism is a major theme of the universe, so you'll surely find some inspiration there.  It's a lot of material to wade through (over 100 writers, and it's been around for several years), so don't even try to go through all of it in a single week.

[Elliott Belser]

Welcome to the Forge, Elliot.

Thanks.  It's good to be here.  A stripped down explanation of the theory converted me: Remind me to thank Vincent for turning me onto this.

This is a great first stab at a game.  It seems like you know where you're going, and you've found several good tools and rule patterns to get there already. 

Lurking here and, again, on Vincent's forum helped.  So did a rocking Exalted game followed by a lackluster one making me re-think my GM style, and my favorite rules.

I do have a couple of questions and concerns:

a) Class and Culture. You don't really state whether the Culture has the same effect as the class (make skills cheaper), or give permanent bonuses, or whatnot.  However, I'm afraid that using these like species/class in a D&D way will help neither your Sim nor your Nar interests.  This is especially true if certain combinations are obviously better than others, e.g., people from the Principality will always make better diplomats than anyone else.  As I can see it, the primary means of having story influence within a scene is the use of skills, so you would punish players of unusual yet interesting characters by having their skills be lower than those of typical combinations.  It will also give a wrong signal regarding play style (incentive to min-max; players will think this game is about making the most effective combinations).

Hmmn... Classes should not function as D&D classes.  As for what Cultures do, I was more inspired by White Wolf vampire clans, changeling kiths and so on - primarily a roleplaying hook, with a unique advantage that was mostly flavor and no effect on skills.  I could just organize the skills into Combat, Technical, Diplomatic and... I don't know what to call the last category, but the skills I had in mind were Athletics, Criminal, Endurance and one other.  Mostly for spies and criminals and whatnot.

b) I like Motivations and that the reward is tied into them.  The only comment I have is that you will probably have every player try to be part of every single scene because that's the way to gain rewards.  You *could* say that Motivations only refresh for everyone once they are used up for all of them, but there might be other ways to handle it (or you might like it as it is).

See, I'm not sure how Scenes are set up.  Perhaps a system similar to Primetime Adventures?

c) Raising stakes for re-rolls, also a good thing (one of Ron's innovations in Trollbabe, I believe).  My question here is how it interrelates with your initial stake-setting procedure.  The player first determines the scope of the task, which then leads the GM to propose a difficulty.  Now both sides can apparently escalate, so... there might be additional bad effects for the other side that the player didn't want to inflict just because the GM wants more dice.  Something about that seems... dangerous to me.  I think you need to playtest this very carefully to see if this doesn't interfere with the players setting stakes.

The stakes must be made clear - that's part of the rules.  Other than that, I'm not sure how to handle this and would appreciate advice.

So, thanks for sharing, and good luck with the design :)

Thanks for the valuable input and the luck.

PS: I am familiar with Orion's Arm - I should read that extensively as well.

[Elliott Belser]

...duh.  Xenopulse, I should clarify: Motivations are NOT how you gain XP: they give you a different kind of reward.  I'm not sure what kind, but it's not XP.

[MikeSands]

From what you have described about the character design, I don't see any transhumanist focus.

Is there going to be any mechanical way to enhance your character with new technologies and see how that impacts them? How does this tie in to what you have described?

[Elliott Belser]

From what you have described about the character design, I don't see any transhumanist focus.

Is there going to be any mechanical way to enhance your character with new technologies and see how that impacts them? How does this tie in to what you have described?

Ah!  I'm trying to figure out a way to implement upgrades that doesn't make people go "Ooh, shiny toys!" and try to min-max the night away.  I was thinking, and forgot to post this, that I would have a Gift/Flaw system in place for that, but I don't quite know how to make it work.

[MikeSands]

I'm trying to figure out a way to implement upgrades that doesn't make people go "Ooh, shiny toys!" and try to min-max the night away. I would have a Gift/Flaw system in place for that, but I don't quite know how to make it work.

Well, one way to avoid min-maxing would be to say "if you can pay the cash for the enhancement, it's yours"

You should be wary of making this a zero sum gifts/flaws purchase like the Storyteller games, as this builds into your game the assumption that "everything that makes you better than human also takes something else away". This seems like it would restrict exploration of transhumanism rather fatally.

[darquelf]

  The classes specialize in Combat, Technical, Rogue (yech, I need a better name) and Diplomatic skills

You could always use Scoundrel in place of rogue.  That also allows you to have skills like "gambling" "con" ect cross lines (Diplomatic/Scoundrel)

[Anna B]

Hi I'm the "Dramtic Tea" Designer. *waves*

The game will have a game master, support campaign play (and strongly advise leaving it to 10 sessions tops) and have experience point awards.

Personaly like longer games and would perfer to suport them

You pick two archetypes to create a character: a Culture and a Class (or occupation, or whatever).  There are five cultures we plan on detailing. The New Earthers eschew transhuman tech; the Network can't live without constant interaction through computer implants; the Principality is made up of human noblemen lording over robotic (and bioroid?) serfs, the Leauge are techno-anarchists; and Those Who Learned genetically alter themselves rather than terraform planets.  The classes specialize in Combat, Technical, Rogue (yech, I need a better name) and Diplomatic skills: You get a certian number of skills as "favored," allowing you to purchase them with experience for cheaper, including all of your "class" skills.

Hmmm. . .
Combat: Fire, Technical: Air; Rogue: Earth, and Diplomatic: Water? I think that works, but I'm not sure we want a class system. I was thinking more contuined point build like WW or GURPS

They also have 8 Stats: Agility, Stamina, Reason, Perception, Charisma, Composture, Inspiration/Intuition (not sure what to call it), and Will, rolled in a dice pool with a skill in a conflict resolution system.

For other simmies: That Earth (physical) active and passive, Air (mental) active and passive, Water (socail) active and passive and Fire (Sprital) active and passive.

[Anna B]

b) I like Motivations and that the reward is tied into them.  The only comment I have is that you will probably have every player try to be part of every single scene because that's the way to gain rewards.  You *could* say that Motivations only refresh for everyone once they are used up for all of them, but there might be other ways to handle it (or you might like it as it is).

I'm not sure how often motivations will lead directly to rewards. We are still working on the mechanics behind this. In general motivation would lead to rewards when they were resolved in a final way. If your motivation is to end the war and you do something to bring this about, or majorly futher this goal then you get a reward. (I need to figure out what happens if the war ends and you didn't do anything to make that happen)

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Well, as to the name "Rogue", you are using adjectives for the other classes, use Criminal or Underworld instead.
  What's the theme? Is it that Adding machine to humans makes them less human, or is it that yo can;t stop evolution? Is there a Technocracy theme? Do those who have the most tech rule? Is there a Technoratti theme, where those with the most money and influence benefit from tech while the unwashed masses live still haven't imrpoved? Are all humans treated well, while intelligent machines are treated unfairly like second class citizens?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  Oh, and Motivations and Rewards
  Well, you should tie the reward to the motivation, no? If the character is motivated by greed, the only way you can use your motivation is to make more money? I find that these social stats work better when there is a word associated as well.
  For instance Reputation, a number on reputation means nothing, unless a word, like fencer is associated, then higher is beneficial in intimidating. While the word Sexy might give bonuses to Seduction...

[tygertyger]

I'm not sure how often motivations will lead directly to rewards. We are still working on the mechanics behind this.

WW uses Motivations (in the form of Nature and Demeanor) as an rp hook for the kinds of things that PCs must do in order to refresh a spendable Trait (Willpower).  Something similar could work here.  This gives the player a game-mechanical reward for good rp.

I'm trying to figure out a way to implement upgrades that doesn't make people go "Ooh, shiny toys!" and try to min-max the night away.

One option is "cash only," as in mods have to be purchased in play.  This loses some flavor in chargen unless there is a pool of starting cash available for such purchases.  Another way is "cash + xp" to purchase mods.  This requires PCs to acquire resources in play in addition to simply earning xp in order to upgrade.  Again, you lose some flavor during chargen unless PCs begin with a pool of starting xp and money with which to buy enhancements.

Note that the term "mods" doesn't distinguish between cyborg implants, biotech implants and genetic enhancements; the mechanics will run smoother if such things are differentiated mechanically solely by their game effects.  The only differences between the different technologies should be matters of flavor (i.e. how unmodified humans react to an obvious cyborg versus how they respond to a genetic mutant or biotech-enhanced superhuman who looks normal) or trade-offs (cyberlimbs are obvious and don't heal when damaged, but damage to a biotech implant hurts and the thing stops functioning until it heals).  Different kinds of tech should also have different availability in various regions, and some types won't be available at all in some places.  The same applies to legality.  This is a great way to keep power gamers in line.  Some of the really whiz-bang stuff might well be illegal in the places where it's available in addition to readily detectable by anyone with the right equipment.  But in places where the stuff is legal, it might be because they haven't developed it yet.  That's a bit of a problem when you need your sooper-dooper cyberweapon implant repaired. ;)

[Elliott Belser]

One option is "cash only," as in mods have to be purchased in play.  This loses some flavor in chargen unless there is a pool of starting cash available for such purchases.  Another way is "cash + xp" to purchase mods.  This requires PCs to acquire resources in play in addition to simply earning xp in order to upgrade.  Again, you lose some flavor during chargen unless PCs begin with a pool of starting xp and money with which to buy enhancements.

Note that the term "mods" doesn't distinguish between cyborg implants, biotech implants and genetic enhancements; the mechanics will run smoother if such things are differentiated mechanically solely by their game effects.  The only differences between the different technologies should be matters of flavor (i.e. how unmodified humans react to an obvious cyborg versus how they respond to a genetic mutant or biotech-enhanced superhuman who looks normal) or trade-offs (cyberlimbs are obvious and don't heal when damaged, but damage to a biotech implant hurts and the thing stops functioning until it heals). 

I am biased against cash systems.  You introduce a cash system, players will split attention between Motivations and making money: more than one game of mine was ruined by vast PC wealth.  Social restrictions are more in keeping with the game - and perhaps paying purely in experience/character points?  Gifts, with no mechanics for flaws, and Gifts can represent equipment as well?  With the advantage of equipment being that you can spend a scene to swap it out for more appropriate stuff.

In the New Earthers, ALL permanent upgrades are illegal, but temporary equipment like augmented reality visors (think 'gargoyle rigs' from Snow Crash) are fine and servile true AI are fine. 
The Principality probably wouldn't like advanced AI or cybernetics but would think that biotech is fine.
The Network LOVES cybernetics, especially mechanical telepathy (AIM/cell phone in your head sorta thing.)
You can get anything in the League if you can track down a friend of a friend of an enemies enemy
Those Who Learned mandate adaptive biotech in all citizens. 

The problem with this is the min-max thing; I can already imagine that people will angle to be friends with the Free Transhuman League.

Access.  It's about social access and wheedling what you want out of your superiors.  I might have to tighten the focus of the game somewhat: I KNOW that I want the first campaign I run to be about the diplomatic corps of several planets meeting at a neutral station to prevent, or at least postpone, a war with the potential to escalate to "you drop a rock onto my homeworld, I'll drop a Black Goo Bomb on yours."  Sort of Bab 5 meets Ghost in the Shell.