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A plea for content

Started by pells, December 29, 2005, 08:11:04 PM

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sayter

Interesting post. I generally agree with the first couple replies. You can only tell so much before you start shoveling metaplot onto the collective heads of the intended audience. This, in effect, totally obliterates any long-term campaign goals unless they occur outside the presented story...which is defeating the purpose of providing it in the first place.

It's a very thin layer of ice, where you cant go too far in either direction. A tough stance to take, to be sure. With Realm, I find myself developing a very complex backstory...but leaving current events and the future virtually unknown. Even historical events are largely shrouded in mystery, allowing the players and GM to develop the world however they see fit. In the various sections in the setting, I have provided possible Hooks. Nothing more. Thus, a GM coudl select a specific hook or go an entirely different direction based on how he sees my setting.

I think what you are saying is "Why The Emphasis on Mechanics" versus "Why the lack of story?" and to that I can say only a few things. Mechanics only exist for you to use if you want to. Very few RPGs cannot be played without the system, and often they state this directly in the rules (the most readily available example beign Exalted with its "Golden Rule: of "if you dont like it, change it."

As such, why not simply focus entirely on story and omit mechanics to an almost superficial level? Much more than this and you then leave the RPG area and enter into a play or a production. That is the primary difference. One is play acting, the other is actual acting. One operates on a set of rules to govern the way the actors perform and the other sets no boundaries and leaves every aspect of the proceedings in the hands of the performer.

And to answer a question you presented:

QuoteI'd like to see a great rpg video game who sells a great, non linear story.

Sure. Elder Scrolls: Morrowwind. Its about as nonlinear as is possible for a game that is digital in format. And one of the most lauded of all time. The problem with non-linear: Few scripted events. I played morrowind for over 100 hours. By that time I had explored only a fraction of the gameworld but had spent countless amounts of those hours in libraries and studying magic. I read hundreds of notes on the history of the world, some many pages long. If this is what you mean, there is nothing better for your money at current time (except of course the next in the series which is due out on xbox360, soon)

Some of the best rpgsin video games are story driven, but not non-linear. Look at the Final Fantasy series (IV and onward) as a prime example of this. Lunar is another example. There are dozens more that warrant mentioning. Then of course you have semi-linear, such as Knights of the Old Republic, where you can accomplish tasks however you choose to do so and will be rewarded with differing outcomes based on said choices. And you can do them in the order you want.

Its really all a matter of taste.
Chris DeChamplain
-Realm- RPG

Callan S.

Sorry to keep probing, but I'm looking for a core here.
QuoteAs I said earlier, I wish to offer a vast menu of adventures from which my players can choose from.
I sense a certain desire to take pride in the menu you can provide. For example, if the players could "get into the kitchen and cook up their own meals" it would bypass any opportunity for you to take pride in presenting the menu and having players decide to accept your offerings.

It's a bit of an awkward analogy, but it would be kind of like stereotypical Italian mothers who want to provide this banquet to their near and dear.

I'm not trying to pidgeon hole you here. I think figuring out this sort of groundwork will really help.
Philosopher Gamer
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pells

Non Linear
Having a game that takes 1000 hours of play doesn't make it non linear. Having some 'small facultative subplot' doesn't make a game non linear.
What I mean by non linear is this. Can you replay it, when it's done, and, by making other choices, taking different sides, get an all new perspective, insight of the story ? Maybe even get a different ending.

System
I don't omit mechanics. It's there. It's just I will use one (or many) that is already existing. I don't design one specific for what I'm writing. But, it might come later.

Menu
QuoteI sense a certain desire to take pride in the menu you can provide. For example, if the players could "get into the kitchen and cook up their own meals" it would bypass any opportunity for you to take pride in presenting the menu and having players decide to accept your offerings.
Sorry, if you sense that. Like I said, the menu can be composed (to follow your example) of french fries, cheeseburgers and hotdogs or high french cuisine. Doesn't really mater for my purpose. That said, as I have experienced, given a multi plot story, players tend to jump from one to the other. Or, otherwise said, taste a bit of everything on the menu. Also, if your players go to the kitchen and prepare their own meal, do they compose it from the present expedients or they bring their own ? If they use what you have, then I guess having a setting is necessary. Otherwise, maybe you're playing a DM less game, in which case you don't need pre written scenario. If the players decide themselves, then, honestly, good for them. There's no real pride as long as everyone enjoys themselves around the table.
Just one note about this concept of menu. It comes from philosophy, Will Kimlycha (not sure about the way to write it's name.) uses it as to define a culture. What is the menu of persona a culture has to offer an individual as a criterium to define culture.

Design
I'll take the chance to continue by presenting an element of essence and some events related to it.
Quote
Presentation
Legendary defenders of Raijuvak, the white dragon hunters take their name from their summertime activity, the hunt for white dragons and the capture of their eggs. These are later transformed into dragonites by the shamen. Long ago, in an immemorial time past, the BaneHeart rode the dragons instead of fighting them. At that time, the clan was nomadic. But those days are long gone and lost, forgotten by all. The dragon hunters constitute a force of over seven hundred men using fifty or so dragonites.
Social structure and power
The dragon hunters are first and foremost a clan, bond by ties of blood, the blood of the BaneHeart. Their contribution to the safety of Raijuvak is of such importance that the council has granted them two seats. These two council members form the very heart of the clan. Until most recently, Ariadne and Athnar held this position, though in reality Ariadne was the clan's true voice. Unfortunately, she disappeared last year, left for dead and replaced by her eldest son. The dragon hunters are closely linked to the blacksmiths and the shamen.
Membership and recruitment
Recruitment happens first of all on the basis of lineage. First come the children of Ariadne and Athnar BaneHeart, but also all the nephews and distant relations of this large clan that has lived on the lands of exile for as far back as the memory of man can recall. Beyond this large and prestigious clan, many are those who dream of a life of adventure and glory, spent tracking white dragons, riding on the back of clan BaneHeart's dragonites. These outsiders are welcomed within the group, but their dreams of glory may well never come to be: stable boys to take care of the dragonites, lancers to assist the real hunters or else mere kitchen hands and camp builders... Only a select few will get to walk the path they dreamed of, and often only through a fortuitous marriage into the clan.
Activities
The group led by clan BaneHeart can boast of the proud service it renders Raijuvak during the winter season. And its role in repelling the onslaughts of Dragün and its horde of white orcs is no slight one. Riding their dragonites and clad in armour, the hunters are proud warriors. During the warm season, the Dragon hunters move towards the high mountain range to the east of Raijuvak, the crest of the world. There they hunt the white dragon, so as to steal their eggs and offer them to the shamen, that they may be transformed into dragonites, faithful slaves to their masters. The hunters are assisted by the shamen during these expeditions. They rarely venture beyond the feet of the mountains. In addition, the bodies of the vanquished white dragons are put to many uses. Their scales make for excellent armour and shields, once welded in the dwarven forges. As for the bones, they provide building material for city defenses. Their flesh, salted for preservation, ensures the hunters' survival during the winter season. The hunters play a crucial part in the defense of the city, but it is closely linked to the other groups: shamen and blacksmiths, amongst others.
History
0 :it is told that the BaneHeart wander the lands of exile, the family torn apart.
310 : some BaneHearts would have settled in Bedora and Raijuvak.
547 : the BaneHearts are in Raijuvak and take part in defending the city against the white orcs. The first dragon hunts take place.
700 : dragon hunting is now a yearly activity.
1305 : shamen take part in the defense of Raijuvak for the first time.
1315 : for the first time, the shamen transform dragons' eggs into  dragonites.
1319 : Athnar weds Ariadne against the will of Gorand BaneHeart. Father and son are no longer on speaking terms.
1325 : Athnar enters the Raijuvak council alongside his father.
1328 : Death of Gorand BaneHeart and end of the tensions within the clan. Ariadne enters the Raijuvak council. The clan turns towards her.
1350 : at the end of autumn, Ariadne disappears whilst taking part in the white dragon hunt. She is declared dead by the defenders of the summer capital. One of her sons, Asakar BaneHeart takes her place on the council.
1351 : defend the summer capital against the white orcs during the winter season. The loss of their leader, Ariadne, is cruelly felt by the defending force. Springtime come, the hunters head once again towards the crest of the world. And as some hunters disappear without trace in the mountains, rumour spreads about a mysterious knight riding a white dragon.
All my elements (I have a 100) are build this way. The system is hidden behind. It's not my main concern, because stating out one dragon hunter takes a fraction of the time to design them. Note that I don't provide characters, except main one, for this organisation. So, when your players encounter one, the DM has to defined him as he plays based on the above information. I don't think I need to provide those characters. I believe DM don't need them.

Here's an example of some events related to the dragon hunters.
Quote
April septenary 1
The white dragon hunters leave Raijuvak
Asakar has taken his mother's place and it is the first time he leads his troops to battle. In spite of this, the white dragon hunters remain as united as ever. An army as black as the noyrme of its weaponry, and white as the dragon scale armour that half of its warriors wear. Final preparations are complete and the troops break camp. Close to a thousand men, all in marching order, carrying halberd and spear. A flight of sixty or so dragonites is overhead, rode by the most powerful among these warriors. The army is set for the crest of the world. Ariadne is missed by all and this, the first hunt taking place without her in a generation, is dedicated to her memory
April septenary 2
The dragon hunters strike camp
Three closely linked plateaus. The BaneHeart know this region well and have set up their rear camp here for years. The troops followed three separate routes which took them through the mountain pass they now overlook. Already tents are being drawn up. Groups of archers are slightly higher up, positioned in caves that have been adjusted for their use. The dragonites patrol above the encampment. The white dragon hunters are back in their summer settings. Strong winds blow on the camp and the temperature is reminiscent of the storms of Dragün, bar for the white orcs. It will take a full week for the men under the BaneHearts' command to set up camp. But activity is reaching fever pitch, the hunt is open.
April septenary 3
The dragon hunters start scouting
By now, the camp is nearly fully established. The shamen accompanying the hunters have raised a storm covering a radius of one kilometre around the camp, shielding it from the attentions of the dragons. Empty caves can be seen all around the three plateaus where the hunters have set up. Remnants of old dragon lairs, whose inhabitants the hunters killed long ago. The number of dragonites overhead has fallen drastically. The hunters are out scouting. In small groups of three or four on their steed, they explore the surrounding region, not daring to stray to far from camp at first. They are looking for dragon lairs. Flying at low altitude, they seek out the inhabited caves that form their preys' usual refuge. They do not want to fight them. Not yet anyway. Once a cave has been found, the troops will set out.
Dramnard heads north, in pursuit of orcs
Riding his faithful steed, Dramnard plans to harass the black orcs, even though he knows he has much land to cover in order to catch up. Flying at full speed towards the lands of silence, Dramnard rapidly notices that this vast territory has drawn back towards the ice palace. No trace can be seen of white orc storms nor of those pursuing the black orcs. Dramnard hesitates. Should he head towards the ice palace ? If the rumours that abound on that accursed place are true, he has no hope of achieving anything there alone. Then, an idea comes to him. « If the black orcs appeared at different locations across the lands of exile, maybe the dragon hunters will have found some on the crest of the world ? » Before heading back to Raijuvak, Dramnard thus decides to make for that region.
April septenary 4
Dragon hunters discover a lair
The hunters remain mounted. From the safety of a mountain hideout, they stake out the grotto they have discovered. One hunter gestures upwards, pointing to the sky. « It's the male ! » A white dragon, whose size doesn't exceed four metres, is swooping around the mountain before heading towards the grotto, under the keen eyes of the hunters. « The female must be inside protecting the eggs ». Looking down towards the gorge that leads to this location, the men assess strategic emplacements. « Our troops could move through here. We would need to station archers over there ». The hunters fly over the region one last time before leaving. No sign of any other dragons. « Let's go and warn Athnar. We have what we came for ».
Ariadne makes her first appearance
Hunters are flying over the mountains at low altitude. Ariadne has spotted them for a while now and is relentlessly stalking them. Her steed knows the region much better than the hunters do, which allows her to operate undetected. The hunters finally land and the dragonrider chooses this moment to attack. Flying around a mountain on the hunters' path home, Ariadne blindsides them. At the sight of the huge dragon that she rides, the hunters are panic-stricken and one of them is struck down before he even has time to take off. Following the two others, she catches up with a first and beheads him with a single strike of her sword. Reaching the second, her dragon brings him down, spiraling groundward. A few metres from the icy surface, the dragon breaks fall and heads skyward again, leaving the hunter and his mount blown apart on impact.
A group of hunters is missing
Athnar displays his satisfaction, but must also hide his concern. A group of hunters has returned to inform him of the location of a lair they can strike at. The hunt will be able to start in earnest at last. However, another group is missing. What could have happened to them ? Have they simply be delayed ? Were they attacked by dragons ? « Not much chance of that. Not those men. They know at what altitude to fly. » From inside his tent, he can hear the wind blowing over the camp. Asakar interrupts his musings, bringing the outside cold in with him. « Father, the men are ready to leave. » Taking the helmet in front of him, Athnar puts it on as he strides out. « We can't leave them waiting then, can we ? »
Dramnard makes a strange encounter
Interrupting her flight, Drizoney is the first to catch sight of the strange figure. « Over there ! » Dramnard needs a few moments before he too can discern what his steed has located from afar. A huge white dragon, over ten metres in length, is flying above the mountains. A strange figure clad in white armour is on its back. Even Drizoney is no match for such an opponent. « Let's give this one a miss, eh ? » Dramnard agrees with his bronze dragon's sense of caution. « Don't worry, Drizoney, we'll leave this dragon alone. But I wonder what it is doing at such low altitude. » The dwarf therefore decides to give the white dragon a wide berth, while continuing to look for the dragon hunters' encampment.

Note that the first part, spring, is composed of 300 events.
As you can see, the structure of this part of the scenario is quite different from a 'normal one'. I try to give the necessary information, nothing more. For one thing, if your players don't follow the dragon hunters, things on the crest of the world just happen that way as the PCs can't interact with the events. I also hope it's more fun to read that way. I also wish it's not directive.
That said, what happens if your players go with them ? The building of the camp is described in a very few words, but factually, in play, how does this happen ? Well, it's the DM's job to decide that. Your players will surely find some friends. Who are they factually. It's the DM's job to define them. But what will your players do after that ? Will they go search for a lair ? Stay at the camp ? Will they encounter a strange figure ? I really don't know. Depends on the group, depends on the DM. The game will offer a new point of view of this part of the story.
As I'm wirting a five stories scenario (and this is a sub plot), I don't want to go into too mny details. It would lead to an overflow of information.
Also, it was quite easy for me to extract the exact part that concerns this subplot.
That said, I do realise that what I'm doing takes a LOT of time. But this is related to the content, not the container.

So, any comment, questions ?
Do you feel like I give enough information ? Is it a good presumption that the DMs don't need all the details, only a backbone ?
Sébastien Pelletier
And you thought plot was in the way ?
Current project Avalanche