[Maw of Hell] Character Attributes

[dindenver]

Hi!
  I think you have to keep it as currency that the players must spend to overcome the harsh environment. So, based on that, what is the value of keeping it and what is the need to spend it?

[joepub]

Hi!
  I think you have to keep it as currency that the players must spend to overcome the harsh environment. So, based on that, what is the value of keeping it and what is the need to spend it?

Hey, I'm not sure I agree with this.
Because that means the more you use viciousness, the less there is left.

Maybe there could be a "luck" currency.
But to have viciousness be a currency doesn't make sense to me. Unless it were a currency that could only be spent if you were doing merciless things?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  You could be loking at Visciousness upside down. You want the Visciousness mechanic to represent something that your character sacrifices in order to become one with the jungle? What are they sacrificing? Call it that instead of Viciousness and have players spend that to get benefits in game...
  I don't know. Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to do. But it seems like that is exactly what you are describing. As far as setting stat limits based on Visciousness, it doesn;t make sense to me, characters aren;t sacrificing anything and it seems more like a character advancement mechanism than a mentality simulation...
  Maybe it is the word Visciousness that is tripping you up. Or maybe I am just confused, lol
  Either way, I wouldn;t let Visciousness act like a threshhold, it needs to be more dynamic to capture that gradual descent into darkness you are going for I think...

[joepub]

Viciousness is killer instinct.
Some people have more of it, some have less.


Murdering innocents plays on Viciousness. Taking no prisoners requires viciousness.
Letting go of it all and aggressing requires Viciousness.

I'm not saying you can't be a good negotiator with it.


I'm confused as to why it can't be static.
Your resolve will strengthen and weaken throughout, but your Resolve stat stays the same.

I think that stats in this game represent your threshholds.

Your threshold for enduring, your threshold for mental resolve, your threshold for how "aggressive/vicious/killer/murderous/etc" you can get....

Do you see where I am coming from?
How do I incorporate what you're saying, but still have an attribute that players can test under?

[joepub]

and I'd like to stress that I'm not trying to be stubborn...

I'm trying to understand where you are coming from, make sure you know where I am coming from...
and looking for common ground.

[Starblade]

Hi!
  You could be loking at Visciousness upside down. You want the Visciousness mechanic to represent something that your character sacrifices in order to become one with the jungle? What are they sacrificing? Call it that instead of Viciousness and have players spend that to get benefits in game...
  I don't know. Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to do. But it seems like that is exactly what you are describing. As far as setting stat limits based on Visciousness, it doesn;t make sense to me, characters aren;t sacrificing anything and it seems more like a character advancement mechanism than a mentality simulation...
  Maybe it is the word Visciousness that is tripping you up. Or maybe I am just confused, lol
  Either way, I wouldn;t let Visciousness act like a threshhold, it needs to be more dynamic to capture that gradual descent into darkness you are going for I think...

I don't think he's looking for a sacrifice mechanic. I think he's just stating that sacrifice is part of the theme of the game.

Did I get that right, Joe?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  OK, I guess I am looking at it from a different perspective. I thought the intent was to put together a mechanic that changes to reflect how the Jungle changes you. You had said that the idea was that you had to lose some part of yourself to succeed on this planet. And you had said that Viciousness was locked, I assumed that meant that viciousness was the mechanic for that.
  lol, for all I know we are talking about 2 different things, lol
  Anyways, Viciousness taken as a stat should prolly help some things and harm others. Scare off friendlies but make you more badass in the jungle...
  Last I heard Viciousness and Release were based on your actions and not on character design, while Soldier, Tactics, Endurance & Resolve are a measure of who they are and what they are like. And those things may wax and wane, but the baseline is not going to change over time.
  Anyways, I think once you figure out what you have to spend to keep alive in the Jungle, you are golden! It's a really cool, idea!

[joepub]

Thank you for that, Starblade.
That more or less sums up what I was trying for.

Dindenver: Do you think that there could be elements of descent within a standard attribute?
I'm asking this in reference to more than just Viciousness.

For resolve: the "descent" you alluded to for Viciousness is paralleled by mental breakdown, etc, etc. It's a reverse process, but essentially we're talking about descending towards the negative, pulling back.... waging that internal war.

For endurance: likewise, endurance is a descent into fatigue, using adrenaline to pull back up, etc... waging that physical war.

You are obviously pushing to change viciousness because it shouldn't be static - if I read you correctly.
Should these?

Starblade: How do you think viciousness should be represented, in light of that? (should it be represented?)

[joepub]

Anyways, Viciousness taken as a stat should prolly help some things and harm others. Scare off friendlies but make you more badass in the jungle...

Exactly. I'm still trying to figure out how to make "scare off friendlies" fit into mechanics.

Last I heard Viciousness and Release were based on your actions and not on character design, while Soldier, Tactics, Endurance & Resolve are a measure of who they are and what they are like. And those things may wax and wane, but the baseline is not going to change over time.

True. To clarify a little - Release is the "odd one out". It's more a measure of how close you are to being deported than a stat. It's basically like "when the clock strikes 12 you're out" mechanism.

Maybe you're right in that viciousness is more an action thing.... hmm, now I'm suddenly having second thoughts...

 

  Anyways, I think once you figure out what you have to spend to keep alive in the Jungle, you are golden! It's a really cool, idea!

What you have to spend. Now I see what you were getting at with the humanity currency thing.

While that wasn't the right currency, this game really requires one, doesn't it?

[dindenver]

Hi!
  I thought of an easy mechanic:
  Viciousness is a threshhold for interpersonal skills. To perform certain interpersonal tasks, you have to have a certain level of Viciousness or better. If you have the right level, you roleplay the task.

[joepub]

I thought of an easy mechanic:
  Viciousness is a threshhold for interpersonal skills. To perform certain interpersonal tasks, you have to have a certain level of Viciousness or better. If you have the right level, you roleplay the task.

That's perfect. If by interpersonal skills you mean stuff like:

• Unleashing your fury on someone
• Showing no mercy
• Taking down whatever is in your way
• being ruthless

Turn it into a "you must be this high to ride" mechanism.
PERFECT. PROBLEM SOLVED.


Now - what of the other attribute?
My current running list:

Release

Viciousness

Soldier
Stealth
Endurance
Resolve


Should that remain? (Stealth in particular I'm worried about)

[dindenver]

Hi!
  I thought at one point you were going to replace Stealth with Tactical, so it had broader uses?

[joepub]

Release

Viciousness

Soldier
Tactical
Endurance
Resolve

My bad.
So the above is now the current running list.

What does it look like?
are there major gaps?

Soldier/Tactical work in much the same way, just like Endurance/Resolve do. Is this too repetative a system?