Been reading my new pdf, have quesions...

[Sindyr]

Just purchased the Capes and am about 1/2 through my first reading of the system, thought I would pop in and ask a few questions and check in on a few concepts.

1) When creating a hero using the freeform method, can you create a character with 3 Attitudes, 5 Styles, and 3 Skills and 1 Power?  Must a character have either Powers or Skills, but not both? Why?

2) Your side of a conflict has one die showing a one.  You have two debt you want to Stake and Split.  Are you simply not allowed to Split a die showing a one? Is that explicitly stated in the rulebook? (Or would the die split into a "1" die and a temp "0" die?  Still very useful for rolling)

3) Some styles are "powered" and some aren't.  What does this mean?  How are "powered" styles treated differently from non-powered ones?

4) Must exemplars be unfulfilling and unhappy?  For example, with a Love Drive of 5, say, I have an Exemplar of Lila Howard.  Can she not be just a happy good part of my character's life, without a downside apart from the normal work any relationship entails?

5) If the above answer is negative, why would I want to even take any exemplar's?  How does that help me win conflicts and get story tokens and inspirations?  For that matter, this Free Conflict that endlessly repeats seems depressingly banal.  It's like every tv show where the protagonist keeps trying to impress the girl, but never actually makes any headway - its frustratin and boring.  I like to see - nay, I demand (grin) character growth whereby the characters don't keep going around the same loop over and over again. 

OK< that's it for right now - let me know.

[Sindyr]

6) Comic's Codes, since they reward players that bring them close to being contravened with Gloted Story Tokens, are more of an incentive to bring the story to the brink of the Code being broken.

If one has a Comic's Code that innocents may not be killed, that actually incentivizes players bringing innocents as close to being killed as possible, as often as possible, correct?

If one wanted to put a limit of narration *wihout* incentivizing it, say you didn't want innocents to be killed, and you also didn't want players to be putting innocents in jeopardy just to get Gloat Story Tokens, One could merely have a House Rule that says some Comics Codes must be Gloated but not rewarded with tokens.

Perhaps something like:

Comics Code:  "no innocents can be killed through the action, innaction, success, or failure of the heros."  This Code can be Gloated, but does not reward Story Token's when that happens.

Or else, player's would have an incentive to put innocents in danger all the time for the tokens, right?

[Vaxalon]

Why would you want to do that?  Threatening harm to innocents is a standard Superhero trope. 

[Sindyr]

It's just a for instance.  The main point I was making is that Comic Codes actually encourage players to try to pursue that which they forbid, so if they was some behaviour or type or other story limits that you wanted to set but *didnt* want people pursuing, you would have to de-incentivize them by not allowing token rewards for gloating on those ones.

[TonyLB]

1) When creating a hero using the freeform method, can you create a character with 3 Attitudes, 5 Styles, and 3 Skills and 1 Power?  Must a character have either Powers or Skills, but not both?

That's correct.  Powers or skills.  Not both.  Per p. 72, "A character may have up to twelve abilities in three categories: Attitudes, Styles and either Powers (for super-beings) or Skills (for mundane characters)."

Why?

Because them's the rules.

If you want to engage me in a discussion along the lines of "Why did you design it this way, rather than some other way," then that's a different discussion from the one where I explain what the rules are.

2) Your side of a conflict has one die showing a one.  You have two debt you want to Stake and Split.  Are you simply not allowed to Split a die showing a one?

That is correct.  You cannot split that die into two dice with the same total because there is no such thing as a die showing a zero total.

3) Some styles are "powered" and some aren't.  What does this mean?  How are "powered" styles treated differently from non-powered ones?

Powered styles generated debt (as per powers).  Non-powered styles check off (as per attitudes or skills).

4) Must exemplars be unfulfilling and unhappy?  For example, with a Love Drive of 5, say, I have an Exemplar of Lila Howard.  Can she not be just a happy good part of my character's life, without a downside apart from the normal work any relationship entails?

As per p. 75 "There must be a 'root conflict' in the relationship between the character and her Exemplar.  This is some fundamental way in which they are forever at odds."  Whether that means the relationship is (on the whole) unfulfilling and unhappy is up to you.  But there's got to be adversity there.

5) If the above answer is negative, why would I want to even take any exemplar's?  How does that help me win conflicts and get story tokens and inspirations?

It gives other players the opportunity to play your Exemplar in order to drive the story directly at the conflicts that you find most interesting and important.  That helps you (and them) to earn more resources.

For that matter, this Free Conflict that endlessly repeats seems depressingly banal.

So noted.

[Sindyr]

FYI, please don't be upset with me as I go through the process of learning and questioning the game.  Two factors may lead you to think I am attacking you or your work:

1) The parts of your system design that I understand and that I like I will tend not to mention because since I understand and like them, there not much to say that wouldn't be me gushing or preaching to the converted - and also, since time is always precious, I tend to focus my time on areas where I feel work needs to be done - either because I don't understand the area, or do understand it, don't like it, and want to give some critiquing.  Therefor even if I love 90% of the system, mostly you will witness me questioning the other 10%, which may lead you to the impression that I do NOT like the system, which would not be true. But during the learning process you will definitely see me spending the most of my postings on questions on what I don't understand or comments on what I don't currently like.  Just know that the fact I am engaged in the conversation means that I find the system as a whole worth investing a whole lot of my time and energy into, and I am just trying to iron the bumpy bits.

2)  I am not what many would call tactful.  Logical, rational, even open-minded - but also blunt, direct, contrary, and even sometimes a little sharp.  But I *am* sincere about getting the most out of this interesting approach to rpg's.  I apologise if my manner and style of going about the ironing out the bumpy bits grates or seems too confrontational.  I would not be posting questions and differences of opinions if I wasn't respectful of everyone's else's thoughts and opinions - I would just keep it to myself.

Perhaps some of you will wish that I had a little less respect and little more quietly keeping stuff to myself. (grin).

Now, some more questions:

When you make a freeform character, is there a rule controlling how many Styles are powered and how many are blocked?

If I want to make a character that has 3 Powers, 5 non powered Styles, and 4 Attitudes, can I?  Or 3 Powers, 5 Powered Styles and 4 Attitudes?  Or any combination thereof?

Or must characters (made with the freeform system) with Powers have a max of 2 Styles non powered and a max of 3 Styles powered, as the Click and Lock system would cause?

Of course characters without any Powers, that only have mundane skills, would never have Styles that are powered, right?

Also, non_powered character cannot have debt, right?  Therefor they can never stake and split, right?  Therefor in general, I cannot look forward to receiving story token when all the other characters are mundanes?

Finally, what to prevent me from taking a mundane Click and Lock left side piece and saying that each non powered skill/style listed is actually a super skill/style - that this character IS a super, it's just his skills and styles that are abnormally or supernaturally effective?

Thanks!!

:)

[Sindyr]

1) When creating a hero using the freeform method, can you create a character with 3 Attitudes, 5 Styles, and 3 Skills and 1 Power?  Must a character have either Powers or Skills, but not both?

That's correct.  Powers or skills.  Not both.  Per p. 72, "A character may have up to twelve abilities in three categories: Attitudes, Styles and either Powers (for super-beings) or Skills (for mundane characters)."

Why?

Because them's the rules.

If you want to engage me in a discussion along the lines of "Why did you design it this way, rather than some other way," then that's a different discussion from the one where I explain what the rules are.

Actually, although it *is* a side topic to my quest to understand the "what" of the rules, I would be interested in hearing why you designed the system to have characters have either powers or skills but not both.  I have some guesses, but would like to know your thinking as your were designing this piece of the game...

[Sindyr]

More questions:

When does a Page end and a new Page begin?  Is it when all players have used their free actions and do not care (or are unable) to pay for other actions?

Also, if Alice, Ben, Charlie and Dave are done Claiming in this page, Alice uses her free action, then Ben uses his, can Charlie Pass, not use his free action, but use it later before the page is declared ended? Or does he simply lose his chance at a free action if he passes?

And when does a Scene end and a new Scene begin?  Is it when all existing Conflicts have been ended and the table is free of notecards?

Finally, Inspirations, Debt, and Story Tokens are the main resources that are won and lost.  For each of those three, which are ties to the character and which are tied to the player of the character?

For example, if while playing Captain Good I get a 5 Inspiration, 3 Debt, and 4 Story Tokens.

I am pretty sure the 3 Debt is tied to the Captain, but if in the next Scene I play Tess Trueheart, do I while playing that character have access to the above won 5 Inspiration or 4 Story Tokens?  What if someone else in the same scene in which I play Tess is now playing the Captain?  Who in this *new* scene controls the Debt, the Inspiration, and the Story Tokens won last Scene when I was playing Captain Good?

Awaiting anxiously your responses to all of the questions asked so far.

PS. Just finished the PDF - the strategy section was awesome.

[TonyLB]

Actually, although it *is* a side topic to my quest to understand the "what" of the rules, I would be interested in hearing why you designed the system to have characters have either powers or skills but not both.  I have some guesses, but would like to know your thinking as your were designing this piece of the game...

Cool beans!  I've made a thread for that discussion, and other things people want to quiz me on about the whole "Why?" side of things.

[Sindyr]

Thanks Tony! 

Btw, I just confirmed that Insipirations and Story Tokens do indeed stick with the player, not character, and that debt of course sticks with the character - so maybe the best way to get Story Tokens is to play disposable characters that you dont mind getting debt with? ;)

Tony - if you have the time, I would *really* appreciate getting your responses to my above 2 or 3 posts of questions.  Thanks!

PS. Reading the OOC and IC threads of the NecroNazis on RPGNet - very interesting and informative.

[TonyLB]

FYI, please don't be upset with me as I go through the process of learning and questioning the game.

I'm not.  It seems to me that you're trying to understand the rules as a system, and to model its workings in your brain.  That's cool.  It can be sort of hard for me to respond to that tack sometimes (just because the rules are sufficiently holistic that it's hard to pull one thing out and look at it alone) and that makes me defensive.  But I certainly don't take it as an attack.  It's just a way of learning, and I want to help with that.

When you make a freeform character, is there a rule controlling how many Styles are powered and how many are blocked?

Nope.  You can do all sorts of combinations.  Not all of them work well, but they're legal within the rules.  I talk a little bit about the balance of debt-generating and check-off abilities in the Why thread.  Suffice to say that it's awful hard to do much better than the distribution that the click-and-locks give you.

If I want to make a character that has 3 Powers, 5 non powered Styles, and 4 Attitudes, can I?  Or 3 Powers, 5 Powered Styles and 4 Attitudes?  Or any combination thereof?

Yep.  It's street legal.  I wouldn't recommend it, but it's not against the rules.

Of course characters without any Powers, that only have mundane skills, would never have Styles that are powered, right?

Huh.  I never thought about that one.  Not having thought about it, I can answer somewhat certainly "That's gonna make for some wierd rates of debt-flow, which will probably feedback to the disadvantage of the player of that character ... which is to say that I think it's a bad idea from a strategy point of view."  Whether I think it's enough of an issue to code it into the rules?  That's a higher standard.  I'll have to ponder.

Also, non_powered character cannot have debt, right?  Therefor they can never stake and split, right?  Therefor in general, I cannot look forward to receiving story token when all the other characters are mundanes?

Yep.  I'm in very nearly that exact situation in a game I'm playing PBP.  The one player currently running a powered player is saying (quite literally) "Ah!  So it's time for you all to wine and dine me in hopes that I'll give up story tokens, right?"  And we're all nodding, because she's exactly right.

Finally, what to prevent me from taking a mundane Click and Lock left side piece and saying that each non powered skill/style listed is actually a super skill/style - that this character IS a super, it's just his skills and styles that are abnormally or supernaturally effective?

Nothing at all.  Also, note, the Shoveller's "power" of "Mighty Shovelling: 5" is no more inherently effective than any ditch-diggers "Shovel: 5."  What's most important is that the Shoveller generates debt.  It's the debt that makes him more effective, not (directly) whether his shovelling is super-powered or not.  Though, of course, re-using that 5 ability over and over is pretty keen too.

[TonyLB]

Btw, I just confirmed that Insipirations and Story Tokens do indeed stick with the player, not character, and that debt of course sticks with the character - so maybe the best way to get Story Tokens is to play disposable characters that you dont mind getting debt with? ;)

Absolutely.  If you can run a different disposable villain in every scene, and make each new one interesting enough to attract story tokens then you are rockin'.

[TonyLB]

When does a Page end and a new Page begin?  Is it when all players have used their free actions and do not care (or are unable) to pay for other actions?

Yep!

Also, if Alice, Ben, Charlie and Dave are done Claiming in this page, Alice uses her free action, then Ben uses his, can Charlie Pass, not use his free action, but use it later before the page is declared ended? Or does he simply lose his chance at a free action if he passes?

Nope.  As a result I've almost never seen anyone pass.  Those free actions are ... y'know ... free!  But you can't save 'em, so you gotta use 'em.

And when does a Scene end and a new Scene begin?  Is it when all existing Conflicts have been ended and the table is free of notecards?

Yep.  If people insist on making new conflicts with their actions then they can force the scene to last until people get really pissed off at them.

At convention games (particularly those with a fixed schedule) I occasionally institute "Sudden Death Overtime" ... a page where everyone gets as many free claims (going around the circle) as it takes to claim all sides of all conflicts, no new conflicts may be created during the page, and any tied conflicts at the end of the page are assumed deadlocked (a loss for both sides).  So that closes a scene at the end of that page, in case you really, really just need to get the scene done with.

[Zamiel]

Of course characters without any Powers, that only have mundane skills, would never have Styles that are powered, right?

Huh.  I never thought about that one.  Not having thought about it, I can answer somewhat certainly "That's gonna make for some weird rates of debt-flow, which will probably feedback to the disadvantage of the player of that character ... which is to say that I think it's a bad idea from a strategy point of view."  Whether I think it's enough of an issue to code it into the rules?  That's a higher standard.  I'll have to ponder.

I don't see any reason this wouldn't be perfectly reasonable.

Blade Lord
Martial Arts Swordman and Cinematic Villain

Abilities

3 Hanzo Sword
2 Agility
1 Spiritual Corruption

Styles

1 Leaping Attack (P)
2 Clouding the Mind (P)
5 The Shadow Step Slice (P)
4 Whispering Influence (P)
3 Every-Way Thrust (P)

Attitudes

1 Furious
3 Calm
2 Zen
4 Centered

Mechanically, its indistinguishable from a character who's taken five Powers and three unpowered Styles. Absolutely indistinguishable. It also makes sense for the character, in that the things he carries / skills he possesses are much less important to him than the way he uses them together.

Strategically, he might have a slight issue with generating Debt at the beginning of a Scene, but the more Conflicts are on the table at once, the better he does, since he can use his Styles once a Page each. He may end up "overpowering" a few rolls (using a Trait that's rated higher than the die roll being affected), but he has a good chunk of options there.

If it were 3 Abilities, 4 Styles, and 5 Attitudes, I might be more concerned, since that's a character who'll burn out his ability to respond in a Scene fairly quickly (once rolls start hitting 5's), but the ability to grab Debt early in a Scene won't be affected. Using the Powers he has in Reactions will spike that Debt early, and then he can use that Debt to do late splitting he re-rolls with unPowered Traits.

Its perhaps not wholly efficient, but it is interesting.

[Sindyr]

And when does a Scene end and a new Scene begin?  Is it when all existing Conflicts have been ended and the table is free of notecards?

Yep.  If people insist on making new conflicts with their actions then they can force the scene to last until people get really pissed off at them.

At convention games (particularly those with a fixed schedule) I occasionally institute "Sudden Death Overtime" ... a page where everyone gets as many free claims (going around the circle) as it takes to claim all sides of all conflicts, no new conflicts may be created during the page, and any tied conflicts at the end of the page are assumed deadlocked (a loss for both sides).  So that closes a scene at the end of that page, in case you really, really just need to get the scene done with.

Perhaps as a possible house rule for groups that are concerned about never ending scenes:
> Any player at anytime during a page may anounce that the next page is the final one for the scene with Sudden Death Overtime.  This can only be done on or after the 4th (or 3rd, 5th, wathever) page of the Scene.