Social Reinforcement in Capes

[TonyLB]

That's rather funny because I first wrote it without the "nothing more" and realized the sentence needed it.  

Can you elaborate?

[Eric Sedlacek]

That's rather funny because I first wrote it without the "nothing more" and realized the sentence needed it.  

Can you elaborate?

Just that I realized that acting like a jerk wasn't necessarily a problem unless that was all you were bringing to the table.  I wish I had something really profound to say, but I don't.

[Tuxboy]

I think also there is a clear and important differentiation between the player playing his character as a jerk, and the player being a jerk.

[Sindyr]

I think also there is a clear and important differentiation between the player playing his character as a jerk, and the player being a jerk.

Good point - I completely agree.

[dunlaing]

I think that the word "jerk" has a wide range of meaning. There's a big jerk in the sense of someone who is SO INTO IT that he is totally DUNKING ON YOU and ooh, you just have to show him up by beating him at the game, and you know what? He's ok with that! And then there's the big jerk in the sense of someone who is into beating on you and even though you are clearly in a wheelchair, he insists on dunking the ball and then yelling "in your face!" afterward.

[TonyLB]

Heh.  Is trash-talk abusive?

Like, say two guys are playing one-on-one basketball.  Harry misses a basket, and Ron says "Ah, MAN!  That basket was wide open for you, man!  I haven't seen an opportunity that wide open since last night between yo mama's legs!"

There are, basically, two responses to that.  Either Harry replies "Aw SNAP, man!  Now you're goin' down just like yo mama on a five dollar john," or Harry says "Hey man!  That's just not called for!  I don't like hearing that kind of talk."

So I've got two things to say about that.  First, I don't buy that Ron is solely to blame if Harry chooses the second response.  Yeah, Ron said the trash-talk, and Harry made it disruptive rather than running with it.  It takes two to tango.

Second, I think games are much more fun when everybody is trash-talking and it's all still friendly.  I think they are measurably more enjoyable than when everyone is restrained and polite for fear of offending anyone.

[Hans]

Like, say two guys are playing one-on-one basketball.  Harry misses a basket, and Ron says "Ah, MAN!  That basket was wide open for you, man!  I haven't seen an opportunity that wide open since last night between yo mama's legs!"

There are, basically, two responses to that.  Either Harry replies "Aw SNAP, man!  Now you're goin' down just like yo mama on a five dollar john," or Harry says "Hey man!  That's just not called for!  I don't like hearing that kind of talk."

So I've got two things to say about that.  First, I don't buy that Ron is solely to blame if Harry chooses the second response.  Yeah, Ron said the trash-talk, and Harry made it disruptive rather than running with it.  It takes two to tango.

To me, here is the question:  Do I think Ron is trash talking because he is full of macho bravado, or do I think he is trash-talking because he has nothing but scorn for me and is just being an ass.  It has less to do with what is actually said, and more to do with how it is said, and what relationship you have with that person going in.  I may be wrong in my assessment of Ron's motives andt attitude, but nevertheless, my assessment will engender my reaction. 

I personally am not much of a trash-talker, though...when playing games I generally prefer the passive-aggressive route.  "Oh wow, I really left that wide open for you that time didn't I.  Wow, what an idiot I was to give you that HUGE opening to make a play through.  You HAD to be just being nice to me not to take that monumentally awesome mistake I made and not get a basket out of it."  Of course, since I never play basketball (or any sport that makes me sweat if I can help it), my using basketball metaphors is laughable.

Actually, my response to the ACTUAL statement above in the quote, regardless of why I think the person said it, would really be "Take back what you said about my mother or I am going to kick your ass!"  I never take kindly to anyone talking about my mother.  That's never cool.  But I assume you were talking about trash talk in general, and not specifically mother-related trash talk to which I have a highly emotional reaction.

[TonyLB]

To me, here is the question:  Do I think Ron is trash talking because he is full of macho bravado, or do I think he is trash-talking because he has nothing but scorn for me and is just being an ass.  It has less to do with what is actually said, and more to do with how it is said, and what relationship you have with that person going in.  I may be wrong in my assessment of Ron's motives andt attitude, but nevertheless, my assessment will engender my reaction.

Yeah.  It has at least as much to do with how Harry thinks as it does with what Ron (and I'm thinking Weasley here, not Edwards) actually says.

Something that will influence the way both parties think about it, in my experience, is seeing how Ron responds to trashtalk from Harry.  If he responds in a way that shows he's as willing to take it as he is to dish it out, that goes a long way toward convincing everyone that Ron isn't trying to use trash-talk as a way to dominate or oppress anyone.

[dunlaing]

Heh.  Is trash-talk abusive?

Like, say two guys are playing one-on-one basketball.  Harry misses a basket, and Ron says "Ah, MAN!  That basket was wide open for you, man!  I haven't seen an opportunity that wide open since last night between yo mama's legs!"

There are, basically, two responses to that.  Either Harry replies "Aw SNAP, man!  Now you're goin' down just like yo mama on a five dollar john," or Harry says "Hey man!  That's just not called for!  I don't like hearing that kind of talk."

So I've got two things to say about that.  First, I don't buy that Ron is solely to blame if Harry chooses the second response.  Yeah, Ron said the trash-talk, and Harry made it disruptive rather than running with it.  It takes two to tango.

Second, I think games are much more fun when everybody is trash-talking and it's all still friendly.  I think they are measurably more enjoyable than when everyone is restrained and polite for fear of offending anyone.

Dude. Wheelchair. You don't trash talk a guy in a wheelchair because you were able to dunk on him. You SHOULD be able to dunk on the guy in the wheelchair. He's in a wheelchair.

[TonyLB]

Bill, you seem to think that my post was meant to refute yours.  I meant it to be elaborating, and addressing a slightly different point.  I figure that we crossed wires somewhere on imagined voice-tone, yes?

That having been said ... if you're playing a fair, competitive game of basketball against a guy in a wheelchair (i.e. you're not holding back and he's so good that he still has fair odds to win) then I would argue that you absolutely do get to crow about your stellar dunk, just the same way that he gets to crow about leaving tire-treads up and down your shins.  Does that seem wildly off-kilter to anyone?

[Sindyr]

Heh.  Is trash-talk abusive?

One quick note:

Trash talk may be considered abusive by some if racial epithets are used.  Just like everything else, I suspect that in any particular group, there's trash talk, and trash talk that crosses the line.

Where the line *is* is different for each group.

[Vaxalon]

Attitude has a lot to do with what kind of trash talk is cool and what kind is not.

Escalating trashtalk with each side giving as good as it gets?  Totally cool.

One person trashtalking and the other responding with steely silence and focus on the game?  Totally cool.

One person trashtalking and the other withdrawing, knuckling under, even quitting?  NOT cool.  Whose fault?  That depends on whether you feel that the person who dominates a relationship has more responsibility for it or not.  Some people say that dominant people deserve the rewards of dominance, and that you only get what you fight for, others say that dominance entails responsibilities as well as rights.... and those aren't the only two philosophies, either.

Capes is a game that's built on the idea that you only get what you deserve, and there's only two ways to deserve things; fighting for them and working for them.

[Thunder_God]

Trash-talking is about attitude, not really on using cuss-words.

You can say mofo, bitch and whatever, but they're added in order to highlight things. If you're actually using insults in your trash-talk, that's not cool.

Like cussing one another's mother. You do get to belittle one another, that's trash talk, it's all about the 'tude.

[Sindyr]

Trash-talking is about attitude, not really on using cuss-words.

You can say mofo, bitch and whatever, but they're added in order to highlight things. If you're actually using insults in your trash-talk, that's not cool.

Like cussing one another's mother. You do get to belittle one another, that's trash talk, it's all about the 'tude.

Ultimately, trash-talking is only fun, and perhaps only valid, when both sides are participating - either by trash talking back or glaring as a response.

As Vaxalon says one-sided trash talk with the other guy wincing and obviously getting truly upset, not so much.

[Thunder_God]

Ultimately, trash-talking is only fun, and perhaps only valid, when both sides are participating - either by trash talking back or glaring as a response.

As Vaxalon says one-sided trash talk with the other guy wincing and obviously getting truly upset, not so much.

I glare when people cuss-trash-talk, but that is so they'll know they've crossed the line. This needs to be discussed pre-game.