Capes game scheduled!!

[TonyLB]

We brought to the table a desire to play a superhero rpg and the capes rules, open minds, and enthusiasm to find a new way to do it.

Is more than that required?

'course.  We've been telling you that for weeks now.  I've lost count of the number of people who have told you that the game runs on the willingness of players to passionately invest in it.

So who got excited about a goal?  Who got personally, visibly, passionately invested in making it go their way?  Who brought the passion?

Anybody?  Anybody?  Bueller?

[Sindyr]

I got like one I think - but got 4-6 debt - but that conflict was one one which we oversplit as a test - but even so we had two villains trying hard to keep a goal from happening, they got lucky and got a six, we split our dice but neither of us had story tokens so each of us tried to roll up our side on the action on our turn, but I rolled a one and so did he, so thats that.

Six times?

Your action, your reaction, his reaction ... then his action, his reaction, your reaction.  Six rolls available, if you wanted them.

You got ones on all of those?  Shit man, that is bad luck.  Still and all, sometimes the dice just tell you it's your day to get kicked to the curb.

First of all - a point of clarification.  On my action, I roll up a 1, and get another 1, which I accept.  At this point people can React - are you telling me *I* can react to me own roll?  Whether or not anyone else reacts?  We had been playing that the original actor cannot react on his own roll - and that would have probably made a significant difference. (Four rolls versus two) - In fact if this is true each play can roll twice if he so chooses on his die on his turn if he is willing to spend the Abilities.

Secondly, no matter how many actions you have, we all know that once someone rolls a six, unless they split it, that six is untouchable.  So rolling them down is not an option.

Question: I assume it is illegal to roll a die, split the die, and *then* react?  I assume that actions and any reaction must happen all together, that once an action is taken and a die is rolled, the only further thing that can be done is reactions, until everyone who wants to react has, and then things like staking, splitting, and using Insps can be done?

I mean, say I on my turn roll up a 1 to a 2. I React (to my own roll, if allowable) and roll it up to a 4.  Jim Reacts and rolls it down to a 1.  Fred Reacts and rolls it up to a 4.

I am assuming that, for example, after Jim's Reaction but before Fred's, I can't use an Inspiration, or stake and split.  Once an Action has been used to roll a die, the only thing that any player can do is use Reactions until all players that want to use Reactions have.  *Then* I may stake, split, use Insps, right?  (I could have also done any of those *before* my Action as well, right?)

[Sindyr]

We brought to the table a desire to play a superhero rpg and the capes rules, open minds, and enthusiasm to find a new way to do it.

Is more than that required?

'course.  We've been telling you that for weeks now.  I've lost count of the number of people who have told you that the game runs on the willingness of players to passionately invest in it.

So who got excited about a goal?  Who got personally, visibly, passionately invested in making it go their way?  Who brought the passion?

Anybody?  Anybody?  Bueller?

How do you make the other players do that?

Or maybe what you are saying is I should tell the other players that if they didn't have fun, the game author says it is their fault for not being passionate enough.

[Matthew Glover]

How do you make the other players do that?

Or maybe what you are saying is I should tell the other players that if they didn't have fun, the game author says it is their fault for not being passionate enough.

While playing Capes, getting another player excited is your job.  Not "your" as in you, Sindyr.  "Your" as in "any person playing the game ever."  That's what Capes is about.  That's how you earn Story Tokens.  That's the only way to earn Story Tokens.  You have to pay attention to what they think is cool about their own characters and play to that.  Drop conflicts that they can't ignore, make them fight hard for them, then let them win.  That's how you make them passionate.

The flipside is that they have to start out caring about their characters at least a little bit.  If they aren't engaged, they can just ignore any conflict you drop, and then nobody has fun. 

[drnuncheon]

How do you make the other players do that?

You can't force it...but you can encourage it.

Lead by example.  Get excited yourself.  If you're running the demo, play the villain.  Be melodramatic and nasty.  Make people want to stop you.

Don't hold back.  Don't set up your goals to be "nice" to people.  Don't say "Lucky Charm saves Catwoman-mimic from embarassing herself".  Instead, throw down "Lucky Charm embarasses Catwoman-mimic".  Or "Catwoman-mimic is sent to prison."  Use your knowledge of the player to come up with something that they really don't want to see happen - and make a goal based on that, because that's what's going to make them go "What?  Like hell you will!" and start dumping resources on the conflict so they can win it.

On the same note, use clear and concrete goals early on.  Save the abstract stuff, the blocking goals, and all that crazy stuff for later, once you all understand the system.

Some players might need coaching with the rules.  If Catwoman-mimic isn't staking/splitting/whatever, call her attention to the goal.  "Hey, are you really going to let me embarass you?  I know I have a 6, and you can't beat that with one die, but remember you can get a second die by splitting..."

Keep things moving.  If you're running the demo, act as quickly as possible on your turn to keep the pace up. If you have to sit and think about what conflict to put down, then you don't have anything you're excited enough about to make playing it interesting, so look for a die to roll instead.  (Tell your players this, too.)

Remember that the trait you use just has to be worked into the narration somehow - it doesn't have to be central to your action.  (Check out the demo, where the character uses Super-Speed while trying to convince someone.)  Fred doesn't have to destroy the Mind Control Device by direct virtue of his charm.  He could say something like this:  Oculon sends a power blast into the heart of the mind control machine, destroying the capacitor crystal - and then catches Sally as she collapses after suddenly being freed from its effects.  'You're free now," he says with a charming smile. "I'll be back to check on you as soon as Dr. Mesmero is defeated."

J

[Sindyr]

The flipside is that they have to start out caring about their characters at least a little bit.  If they aren't engaged, they can just ignore any conflict you drop, and then nobody has fun. 

I think this was happening with a few.

Also, I dropped a Goal: Lucky Charm looks amazing saving the day.  I don't recall if anyone stepped up to make getting that goal a challenge - and I was willing and ready to hand out some story tokens on that one.

[Sindyr]

How do you make the other players do that?

You can't force it...but you can encourage it.

Lead by example.  Get excited yourself.  If you're running the demo, play the villain.  Be melodramatic and nasty.  Make people want to stop you.

I think this will happen more as we get more play under our belt and have to spend less time figuring out how to play the game itself.

On the other hand, I don't play a villain really well - my hearts not in it - that was probably a mistake I made, but I probably had to make given it was the kick off game.

Does anyone have any answer to my question about can you react to your own die roll on your own action?  This is pretty important to know if it is the case.

Also, does anyone have any opinion on how game breaking it is to simplify Insps by allowing their use to be independent of what situation cretaed them?

Thanks

[drnuncheon]

Does anyone have any answer to my question about can you react to your own die roll on your own action?  This is pretty important to know if it is the case.

You absolutely can - check out the demo and the examples of play.  You always get the option to react to your rolls first.

Also, does anyone have any opinion on how game breaking it is to simplify Insps by allowing their use to be independent of what situation cretaed them?

About as game breaking (IMO) as leaving the traits empty and just using the numbers - that is to say, mechanically it would not really change anything, but it'd be really boring.

J

[Matthew Glover]

Does anyone have any answer to my question about can you react to your own die roll on your own action?  This is pretty important to know if it is the case.

Also, does anyone have any opinion on how game breaking it is to simplify Insps by allowing their use to be independent of what situation cretaed them?

Oh, right.  Yes, when you act, you get the opportunity to react first, then everybody else in order.  If you accept your roll, of course.  If you don't accept that initial roll, nobody get to react.

And you can spend Inspirations, stake Debt, and split dice before or after but not during the action-reactions chain.

I wouldn't consider removing the narrative implications from Inspirations to be game-breaking at all.  I do, however, think that keeping those narrative hooks will help to build tighter storylines by tying the past events to the present.

Also, I dropped a Goal: Lucky Charm looks amazing saving the day.  I don't recall if anyone stepped up to make getting that goal a challenge - and I was willing and ready to hand out some story tokens on that one.

When you drop a goal that is important to you, but not to anybody else, go ahead and stake some debt on it.  Say "Nobody's going to oppose me on that?  Wow, I guess I'll win some free Inspirations, get rid of some of my Debt, and all the Story Tokens will just go away.  I can't believe that none of you guys want those Story Tokens."  Also go ahead and comment on the stuff that they're laying down.  If they drop a conflict involving your character that you're just not interested in, say "I dunno, that's really not grabbing me.  You want to change that to 'Goal: Lucky Charm gets the girl'?  I would totally stake debt on that."

[Eric Sedlacek]

On the other hand, I don't play a villain really well - my hearts not in it - that was probably a mistake I made, but I probably had to make given it was the kick off game.

The energy of the game comes from opposition.  I actually find villains easier to narrate because in the comics, the villains tend to get all the cool lines anyway.

You have to want things in Capes.  You have to want things enough to fight for them and other people have to be willing to threaten those things and make you earn them.  That dynamic is what makes the game work.

Also, does anyone have any opinion on how game breaking it is to simplify Insps by allowing their use to be independent of what situation cretaed them?

Handwaving the inspiration connection is a lost opportunity for narrative flavor.  If you have an inspiration "Captain Invincible bravely fought the lizard-men" and you want to succeed at "Lava Boy has a nice time on his date with Betsy" is just plonking down the inspiration as fun as narrating, "'My God,' Lava Boy thinks to himself.  'The team faces all kinds of super-powered threats without flinching every day, and here I am scared to death to be around a pretty girl.'   He swallows the lump in his throat and puts his arm around Betsy's shoulders.  She smiles back at him."?  I know which one I like better.

Narration isn't always easy.  I know I can draw a blank.  But I choose to see that as a challenge rather than a burden.  Some of the hardest narrations produce some of the best story elements.

[Sindyr]

Does anyone have any answer to my question about can you react to your own die roll on your own action?  This is pretty important to know if it is the case.

You absolutely can - check out the demo and the examples of play.  You always get the option to react to your rolls first.

OK, next question: I thought I read that people did not have to react in order.

Example, people are sitting in this order: Me, Evan, Nigel, Sally, Curt.

My turn, I try to roll up my 1 and get a 2.

Question:  Can I pass my React to let other react before me, and React after them?

Or say I do React, and roll up the 2 to a 4.  If Evan chooses not to react, then Nigel reacts the 4 to a 2, Sally reacts the 2 to a 5, Curt reacts the 5 to a 1 - can Evan, having initially passed his option to React now choose to exercise a Reaction?

If so, if you *can* pass your reaction and simply take it later after everyone else, what's to prevent people wanting to react but not wanting to react first?  Whats to prevent the reaction phase from becoming crawn out as people try to out-wait each other in order to the last person to roll the die?

[Sindyr]

When you drop a goal that is important to you, but not to anybody else, go ahead and stake some debt on it.  Say "Nobody's going to oppose me on that?  Wow, I guess I'll win some free Inspirations, get rid of some of my Debt, and all the Story Tokens will just go away.  I can't believe that none of you guys want those Story Tokens."  Also go ahead and comment on the stuff that they're laying down.  If they drop a conflict involving your character that you're just not interested in, say "I dunno, that's really not grabbing me.  You want to change that to 'Goal: Lucky Charm gets the girl'?  I would totally stake debt on that."

That's brilliant.  Perhaps that is the key to getting this Capes thing going.  Will explore that more fully with the group.

[Sindyr]

On the other hand, I don't play a villain really well - my hearts not in it - that was probably a mistake I made, but I probably had to make given it was the kick off game.

The energy of the game comes from opposition.  I actually find villains easier to narrate because in the comics, the villains tend to get all the cool lines anyway.

You have to want things in Capes.  You have to want things enough to fight for them and other people have to be willing to threaten those things and make you earn them.  That dynamic is what makes the game work.

I think one thing that was lost as we tried to grope with learning the rules is that factor.  Every conflict created should be either because you think someone else really is invested in its outcome or because you are.

When I played "Goal: Lucky Charm looks awesome saving the day"  that was a goal I cared a LOT about winning.  I think I need to convey to the other players that they need to directly address with their conflicts either their own gaming needs or that of someone elses - or else we are just going through the motions - which is OK the first game when you are trying to get your feet underneath you and understand Capes play, but is not sustaining.

Also, does anyone have any opinion on how game breaking it is to simplify Insps by allowing their use to be independent of what situation cretaed them?

Handwaving the inspiration connection is a lost opportunity for narrative flavor.  If you have an inspiration "Captain Invincible bravely fought the lizard-men" and you want to succeed at "Lava Boy has a nice time on his date with Betsy" is just plonking down the inspiration as fun as narrating, "'My God,' Lava Boy thinks to himself.  'The team faces all kinds of super-powered threats without flinching every day, and here I am scared to death to be around a pretty girl.'   He swallows the lump in his throat and puts his arm around Betsy's shoulders.  She smiles back at him."?  I know which one I like better.

Narration isn't always easy.  I know I can draw a blank.  But I choose to see that as a challenge rather than a burden.  Some of the hardest narrations produce some of the best story elements.

Point taken - the downside comes from when the complexity becomes a burden and time gets lost either trying to come up with narrations or bookkeeping the Insps.

Perhaps as the basic Capes mechanics become second nature, we shall bring back in the narrative aspects of Insps.

[Glendower]

Question:  Can I pass my React to let other react before me, and React after them?

Yes.  Once you say pass, you can react to a die roll afterwards.  It then proceeds in order around the table, with people choosing to react or not react.

On page 40:
"The acting player has first chance at a Reaction, and then the opportunity passes around the table clockwise, as many times
as needed. If a player foregoes their right to React at first they may still React later, after other players. But once they React
they cannot React again. "

[Sindyr]

Question:  Can I pass my React to let other react before me, and React after them?

Yes.  Once you say pass, you can react to a die roll afterwards.  It then proceeds in order around the table, with people choosing to react or not react.

On page 40:
"The acting player has first chance at a Reaction, and then the opportunity passes around the table clockwise, as many times
as needed. If a player foregoes their right to React at first they may still React later, after other players. But once they React
they cannot React again. "

If so, if you *can* pass your reaction and simply take it later after everyone else, what's to prevent people wanting to react but not wanting to react first?  Whats to prevent the reaction phase from becoming drawn out as people try to out-wait each other in order to the last person to roll the die?