[TSoY] Timing of Pool Dice

[IMAGinES]

Hi, folks. With any luck, I'll be running my first Shadow of Yesterday game for a couple of friends in a couple of weeks, so I've been poring over the rules (probably a little too much for my own good). I've had most of my questions answered by Clinton and others previously, but a new one cropped up today.

The rules are fairly vague when it comes to when players get to spend pool dice to give themselves bonuses. My reading of the text has me believing pool should be spent before the dice are rolled - except in the example of Bringing Down the Pain in the Resolution chapter, Emily gets to spend a point of Instinct and roll a bonus die after her character Tela's Sneak is checked against Matt's character Gael's Sense Danger and the result goes against Tela.

Now, as this appears in the example, I think it's fair to say that using pool points after an ability check is kosher. But as it's not explicitly mentioned in the rules, I have the paranoid urge to double check - is it okay to get bonus dice (whether from a pool or gift dice) after the result of an ability check is determined?

[IMAGinES]

Actually, please disregard this thread: I just noticed the answer to my query on the TSOY Wiki. Retroactive thanks to Clinton and Doyce!

[Clinton R. Nixon]

You can totally spend pool points after the roll. In fact, you should.

The one rule about that is that you can only spend 1 pool point afterwards unless you have a secret that enables you to spend more.

[Threlicus]

How does this work in the case where I start with a penalty die? Suppose I roll
+++- with a penalty die. +1 is pretty good with a penalty, sure, but can I now spend a pool point for a guaranteed +3?

[Ricky Donato]

In your example, if I understand the rules correctly (and I'm not sure I do), you decide to add a bonus die afterward and then you drop the highest (from the penalty die, which is certainly "+") and the lowest (from the bonus die, which is certainly "-"). As a result it is impossible to get a +3 result.

This is slightly different from if you had added the bonus die before you rolled. In that case, the bonus and penalty die cancel each other out before you roll. The two cases have the same average result, which is 0. The difference is that just rolling 3 dice means the range of possibilities is larger, and so a +3 (or a -3) is more likely.

[colin roald]

Hm.  I was assuming it would work like this:

Roll with penalty die:  + + + -
Remove highest:        + + -  = +1
Decide to buy a bonus die
Roll say a 0:              + + - 0
Remove lowest:          + + 0 = +2

[Ricky Donato]

Hm.  I was assuming it would work like this:

Roll with penalty die:  + + + -
Remove highest:        + + -  = +1
Decide to buy a bonus die
Roll say a 0:              + + - 0
Remove lowest:          + + 0 = +2

You know, this method seems way more intuitive. I'm going to think this one over...