Character creation concept

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I had a notion for making up characters a month or two ago, and only mentioned it to a couple of people. Both of them instantly utilized it, so I figure it must work well. But I'm busy with other projects and haven't yet thought about how to wrap a game around it, or to make a game with holes for its pegs.

I figured I'd post it for comment and availability.

Remember yourself when you were fifteen. Picture going to school, the people you hung out with, the teachers, and the various rituals of getting home from school.

Revise your memory of your fifteen-year-old self by reversing his or her sexual orientation. Full about-face.

Now identify the individual whom that fictional version of yourself would have had the most intense, heartbreaking, impossible crush on.

OK, take that person and fictionalize him or her, adding ten or twenty years. Say what they're doing and what it's like. That's your character.

According to the folks I've mentioned it to, this is absolutely effortless and brings up a number of interesting, role-playable possibilities. Remember, I haven't yet decided what to do with it next - "give him or her super-powers" might be the next step, for all I know.

Try it! I dunno, use it for your next Call of Cthulhu character, whatever.

Best, Ron

[David "Czar Fnord" Artman]

Revise your memory of your fifteen-year-old self by reversing his or her sexual orientation. Full about-face.

Now identify the individual whom that fictional version of yourself would have had the most intense, heartbreaking, impossible crush on.

Hmm.... These were the sticking points for me. I thought I did fairly well at imagining a female David at 15. Had the concept (sort of) and pondered it... then I had to imagine who I'd have a crush on, and it all went south. Let's see... 15, a junior in high school, heavily into gaming, but starting to bloom more socially (with the "burner crowd")... I dunno, some punker guy? Nah. Another gamer guy--weird. Nah.

I started imagining other girls... so my "future" would be lesbian, I guess?

How were those friends of yours who found it successful able to get past the whole sexual orientation thing (a bigger part of gender than mere sex characteristics, IMO)?

David

[Iggy]

Hmm.... These were the sticking points for me. I thought I did fairly well at imagining a female David at 15. Had the concept (sort of) and pondered it... then I had to imagine who I'd have a crush on, and it all went south. Let's see... 15, a junior in high school, heavily into gaming, but starting to bloom more socially (with the "burner crowd")... I dunno, some punker guy? Nah. Another gamer guy--weird. Nah.

I started imagining other girls... so my "future" would be lesbian, I guess?

How were those friends of yours who found it successful able to get past the whole sexual orientation thing (a bigger part of gender than mere sex characteristics, IMO)?

David

I read it differently than you did. I thought Ron meant switch your orientation, not your gender. So...you wouldn't necessarily be imagining the female version of yourself...but the gay version of yourself (or straight version if you are gay)...and the resulting crush.

But I wonder...is the crushee supposed to be of the same orientation? (ie receptive or at least possibly receptive to the crush) Or is that non-relevant?

Its a really cool idea but I imagine it would be pretty hard to do if you were bisexual.
-Ian

[Ron Edwards]

Geez, the best way to make gamer folks get really tangled up about hard-core economic theory is to ask them to make change ... We always make things so much more difficult than they really are.

Ian is correct. I am not saying "boy into girl," but "straight into gay" or vice versa.

And bisexual is not problematic at all - just switch to non-bisexual of whatever sort.

Best, Ron

[David "Czar Fnord" Artman]

Whoops. I did mis-read... made worse by also redirecting the question into orientation... which was the whole point to begin with. DUH!

With that in mind... Nope. Can't do it; such imagining is (for me) functionally no different from imagining femaleness, as I am hetero. I'd get closer to an image if I just imagined who I'd felt impressed by or who were my fictional or real-world heroes—a common technique, I am sure. But imagining myself as hot for some particular guy (worse, a contemporary peer!) is stretching it.

But sure, I expect that, if I could so imagine, I would pick a love interest with appealing characteristics who should, in turn, make for an enjoyable character to play.

I didn't intend to be argumentative; just trying to think it through 'out-loud' (while, yes, mis-reading; sorry). No "hard-core" here, I promise. Perhaps you didn't expect any posts which would make an attempt or which would comment on its difficulty?

David

[Keith Senkowski]

Ron,

So let me see if I have this straight.  15 year old me, crush on who I would have had a crush on.  Take that crush and add 10, 15 years to make my character?  I think I did this when I was 15.  Taking my friends and making TMNT characters with them.

[greyorm]

Now identify the individual whom that fictional version of yourself would have had the most intense, heartbreaking, impossible crush on. OK, take that person and fictionalize him or her, adding ten or twenty years.

Ron, when you said "take that person and fictionalize him plus ten or twenty years" I read that placement of the pronoun to mean the individual upon whom you have the crush. However, I'm thinking you mean to indicate the false-self you've created, not the crush. Correct?

Other than that, not sure what sort of game I'd make around this particular character creation mechanic, but I'm thinking this fictional me would make a great Call of Cthulhu (or similar game) character, in love with an older, wiser teacher-sort (can you think of anything more heartbreaking and impossible?). And then the weird shit with tentacles starts happening at some lake house among the pines.

And let's face it, the Deep Ones want humans to breed with, not to have man-manthing love with, so you know none of Cthulu's cultists would be gay men. Shit, gay men save the world from unnatural and indescribable horrors -- gay men being the only ones who CAN save the world from unnatural horrors. That's mind-blowing enough in terms of twisting stereotypes and rhetoric into bizzare and revealing shapes that I love it.

[Iggy]

And bisexual is not problematic at all - just switch to non-bisexual of whatever sort.

I'm confused now. Wouldn't that cause you to describe the same sort of person you would have a crush on anyhow?

Well, that's probably splitting hairs anyhow.

It might be cool to have a list of very similar processes. Each player could pick one. For instance...
imagine your middle school bully....now imagine his bully, add 10 years, etc.
imagine your first crush, the one that didn't know you existed. Now imagine the person that your first crush had a huge  crush on....add 10 years, etc.
imagine you have a long lost brother or sister that was raised in a completely opposite way than you were, add 10 years, etc.

-Ian

[Ron Edwards]

Jesus eating beans. You guys are insane.

OK, here - I remember myself at fifteen.

Now I make myself, back then, gay.

Now I say "who would have been my big heartbreaker crush under those circumstances?"

Ah! Kirk Briggs.

Now I take him (whom I've never seen nor heard from since) and imagine him a little bit older, doesn't matter how much.

And I make up the character for the game.

I submit that if you cannot do this, you are a lying-ass dog.

Best, Ron

[Callan S.]

I can't find anyone there that'd suit - somehow that makes my high school even more depressing.

In that case, a twisted thought is to figure out who I would have 'made do with'. Add 20 years to him. Play out my compromise.

BTW, Ron, don't get too frustrated, man. Your idea is most likely presenting alot of questions to other people even before they get to the question your trying to pose (imagining your gay self is actually a bucket load of questions to begin with, for example). That's probably why people are being pedantic and/or reading it the wrong way. The wrong way because that particular way struck them as really interesting and then they think because of that, that's most likely what the rule means.

[Jixxala]

LOL this thread is a riot.

I actually like the idea alot.  First I am hetero, but have freinds of all possible orientations, so maybe this seems easier for me.  Second any actor should be able to do this with ease, I am by no means an actor, but any gamer should be able to stretch and play other genders or sexual orientations. 

Not sure I would want a whole system designed around this, but it sounds like an excellent exercise.  As for those who have difficulty playing gay characters ... well, did you see too wong foo?  Macho man Patrick Swazi and blade in dresses.  Perhaps you should check out some old Bejing theater stuff, you know women were not traditionally allowed to act.  Look in the right places and you can see Jackie Chan playing a woman, and flirting with the guys.  Last but not least, every disney film prior to the old mans becomming an ice cube featured a drag scene.  Just something to get you thinking.

[Certified]

First let me say I think this concept is great if only for the whaaa! Reaction I can see from some of the more hack and slash "Real Men" I play with. I think this could be a great exercise for players who can't come up with a character concept just because it puts them so far off their center and can be dropped into almost any modern setting. Granted I see this more of a writers block type tool than a corner stone for a game system but I may slip this in between the ums and errs of the next character generation I run and will definitely speared the concept to my friends to see their reaction, and hopefully I can get a real one not just bravado.

What have your trial runs been link with this concept?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

At present, I agree that it seems mainly to be an exercise or curiosity ... but I've been surprised in the past by how many such things turn out to be crucial linchpins once the rest of the system snaps into place, during game design. In role-playing, it's often the case that an effective fix for X often indicates that one should get rid of X altogether and make the "fix" into the plain and simple rule.

Furthermore, I was struck by how solid or certain others' responses were, in my first conversations. That's often a sign that something interesting is afoot.

I'll look forward to your report from the field ... it also amuses me to imagine a bunch of macho-at-the-table guys with this in front of them. Especially since as I see it, it's a totally unthreatening exercise ... except for what one makes of it.

Best, Ron

[Roger]

Hmmm.  This isn't exactly easy or effortless for me.  Not for lack of imagination or some sense of moral outrage, but just logistically.  Outside of my family, I'm pretty sure I'm not in any sort of contact with anyone I knew when I was 15.  I haven't thought about any of them for years.

My analysis of this process is:  Hey, wait a second -- let's try it, for a moment, without step 2 -- the magic orientation switcheroo step.

What does that give us?  Well, it gives us reality, more or less.  How much more or less depending mostly on the player's age.

Now, for me, here's the crux of the thing:  Does Step 2 actually change that reality in any significant way?  From a purely personal experience, I feel my answer is No, not really.  Which might be interesting in and of itself, or it might not. 


Cheers,
Roger

[Ron Edwards]

Roger, I am agog ... you too have misunderstood.

I'm pretty sure I'm not in any sort of contact with anyone I knew when I was 15.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the exercise. It has nothing to do with the real person in question.

The pattern of striking misunderstanding on this thread is too strong to ignore. I am forced to conclude that the responses I've been getting, with a couple of exceptions, are due partly to internet-contrariness (of which there is a fair infection here at the Forge lately), but mainly to some kind of kneejerk "guh! gay not me!" thing.

Best, Ron