[Walk With Dragons] RPG/Boardgame query

[Darcy Burgess]

I'm in the early stages of a tragic-yet-satyrical project called Walk With Dragons.  It's shaping up to be a weird mixture of Fellowship of the Ring and 1930's Germany.  That's just background/teaser info -- it isn't specifically pertinent to my question (or at least, I don't think that it is).

By complete accident, the game has started to develop a really strong -- and I do mean Herculean -- boardgame element.  BG mechanics pop up in situation creation, character generation, player goals, conflict resolution, etc.  WWD is absolutely brimming with stuff I'd never expect to see in an RPG (if I could publish right now, it would have to go in a box -- just to hold all the bits.)

That being said, I'm quite positive that it is an RPG in any meaningful sense.

So, here's my specific question:

Do you know of any existing RPGs that you consider to have a strong, central boardgame element to them that you also consider to be successful as a RPG?

I'm curious, because I'm interested in checking such a beast out, if only to learn and pilfer.

Thanks up front.

PS -- did I mention the game uses frickin' Tri-Ominos?  Whodathunkit?!

[slavemind]

Hi Darcy
It would help if you specify what kind of boardgame you mean.
If its about strategy elements you can look at the mechwarrior RPG and battletech. But mechwarrior isn't that good.
What are you going to do with Tri-Ominos? How strong is that boardgame-element? Please tell us more!

[Stuart Robertson]

I'm mid-way through developing an RPG-Boardgame hybrid -- although it's a bit more on the boardgame side.

Do you know of any existing RPGs that you consider to have a strong, central boardgame element to them that you also consider to be successful as a RPG?

Looking at it from the other side... take a look at this list over on Board Game Geek:  The Definitive Dungeon Crawl GeekList -- there are a lot of games there that have varying degrees of RPG in them.  I'd also add Betrayal at House on the Hill and Fairy Tale to that list.

It's interesting that you say your game started developing boardgame elements by accident.  I was originally planning on making a lightweight RPG, and it's grown into a boardgame.  I'm really excited about some of the BG-RPG hybrid stuff that I haven't really seen in other games.

[Darcy Burgess]

First -- slavemind, I've checked through your post back-catalogue, and I've come to the conclusion that no one's welcomed you to the Forge yet.  So, well, hi, and welcome!  Do you have a real name that I can use?

Both of your questions are actually inter-related, so I'll just spill some more.

WWD currently draws from the following kinds of boardgames: The aforementioned tile-laying abstract strategy as a component of situation creation.  There's a chinese-checkers like mechanic that gets used in determining endgame victory (WWD uses inter-player competition to help generate conflict).  The GM has a limited resource (aka deck of cards) that grants special powers.  In summary, pretty much all old-school parlour games with a little collectible card game for flavour.  Wargame mechanics are completely absent, other than the fact that RPG mechanics grew out of wargame ones...but let's not go there.

The boardgame elements seem to exist at the metagame level -- they represent the access points to the SIS.  However, once the element has been introduced to the SIS, resolution is by drama mechanics.

I hope that clarifies your queries, which were great.
Thanks!

In case some of that jargon up there is essentially meaningless, check out the provisional glossary.  I'm pretty sure I used all of the terms correctly.

[Darcy Burgess]

Wow.  Two in one day.  Welcome, Stuart!  Thanks for making WWD your first Forge thread.

I checked out the links you sent -- Fairy Tale is closest to the sort of thing I'm looking for, but even it's off the mark.  If those games were food, the boardgame would be the meat.  The RPG would be the seasoning.

I'm looking for either:

RPG is Meat, boardgame is spice.  Or, better yet: RPG and Boardgame are so equally important, you don't know which is the meat.

[Lance D. Allen]

Darcy,

While I can't think of any such existing hybrids, I do know that at one point, Alexander Cherry was working with the idea of turning Frigid Bitch into a BG-RPG, to the point that he even had a board. Having since played Necronomonopoly with him, I'd personally cite that as one of his influences. I think the idea came from a semi-idle comment of mine while he was describing the story-structure of the game to me. I'll see if I can point him toward this thread; Perhaps he can give some insight on his personal experiences with working with the idea.

[Lxndr]

First:  Oooo, Triominoes.  Man, now I want to pick some up again.  Maybe there will be some at gencon, or I'll find some in a local target or something. 

Now, on to the real topic:

I can't think of any existing hybrids of that nature, barring Frigid Bitch which started off as an RPG and gradually accumulated board-type elements.  I've heard people other than myself bandy about the idea, but I've not seen any other finished or even quasi-completed projects (though they may be out there).  I'm also not totally sure if you could count Frigid Bitch completely successful as an RPG in any of its incarnations (it's still very rough, and need polishing) but its deesign was/is definitely RPG as Meat, with the board as spice (it's definitely not to the point of 'you don't know which is the meat').

Frigid Bitch was originally an entry into the Iron Game Chef 2004 contest (IGC Fantasy, I guess you could call it, but I prefer to label it by year) and at that time it had strong gamist elements, but no board.  I tinkered with it for a bit after the contest, but soon got distracted by another shiny thing.  During the summer of 2005, I started up on it again, and decided to try adding a board to the design (so one would travel along 'the board' instead of collecting 'story points' to advance) which worked pretty well in the playtests.  Unfortunately, the game soon was abandoned again, partly out of a disheartened feeling that trying to produce a board (and possibly a box to put it in) would be too expensive/annoying/complex.

Still, if you're interested I can send you a copy of the text as it exists right now, which is far from complete, but which is pretty firmly attached to the idea of using a board.

[Darcy Burgess]

Alexander --

Well, they're not actual triominoes.  But they're very very similar.  Think "custom triominos", hopefully dripping with in-game theme.

Regarding Frigid Bitch, yes, please send me the file -- I'd love to look through what you've done.

And I don't know what scale publishing you were planning on, but I can attest to the fact that you can produce a good-quality board for $10-$15 in materials, and a little sweat equity.  Obviously, this mehtod is not meant for "mass production".

Also, check out protoparts -- it may re-start your engine on FB.

Thanks

[joepub]

Lxndr, please send me Frigid Bitch too!

I'm just starting a project right now (Guttersnipe/Boulevard) that will incorporate a lot of board game elements (I think.)

It could give me lots of insight.

[coldblackwind]

Seems like the RPG/Board Game hybrids are coming out of the woodwork. I am working on one myself and would love to see more of them out there. I think anything that helps with the RPG aspect is a boon for a tabletop player. There is one D&D game that did this long ago. Here is the link http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020121x5

Hope that helps.