Hero Wars 101

[Ayrizale]

Lael (and others),

Let's get more specific in terms of locale? Right there in Dragon Pass (Sartar, Black Horse County, Grazelands)? South (Esrolia, Heortland)? Which specific place? No need to "know it all," just pick what sounds most interesting based on my description above. Or ask more questions about any of them that seem interesting.

My first thought on a specific location would be the Sartar/Grazelands, maybe in the south-western portion of the Sartar region.  It's close enough to the Grazelands that I could possibly still use the Shaman concept if that fits well with the others, while still seems to be close enough to the center of the conflicts to make things interesting.  Using the color map that is the second one listed at the site that you provided the link for, I would say that the area that I would be interested in would be in a triangle with its points at: Duck Point, Clearwine, and Runegate.  That puts the area just south of the Dragon's Eye, which is located near the center of the map.

I'm assuming here that the Grazelands are where the Wolf Tribe (whose name I still cannot remember) makes it's home.  In looking more carefully at that map, I see in white text "Telmori" (rings a bell, is that the tribe that I'm thinking of?) and "Wulfsland".  If those lands are the lands of the tribe that I'm thinking of, then I would prefer an area bordered by: Dangerford, Jarolar Keep, and Jonstown.  Putting it on the northern side of Sartar and to the East of the Dragon's Eye.

I think that it would be interesting to have the game set somewhere near the path that the Lunars took into the region, since that area would probably be a bit more war-torn. Such and area would probably have stronger residual emotions from the invasion, as opposed to someplace more isolated from the ravages of the war.

Lael

[Blake Hutchins]

Damn.  Looks like I was a day late and a dollar short.  Ron, please remind me, do you want any (reasonably limited) outside commentary or questions on this process, or should any non-player reactions, questions, etc. go to another thread?

Best,

Blake

[epweissengruber]

I hope you don't mind if I kibbitz on this one --- I am hoping to set up a HW game when I get back to Toronto, so this would be a useful exercise.

(sorry about the posting problem, I slipped on the keys)

I like the Grazelanders -- they remind me of the Scythians or the Huns, so if there were room for both Heortlings and a Horse Nomad that would be nice.

The rider would be torn between his barbarian freedoms and the seductive lure of a wealthy and powerful civilization. He might be caught between the solar pantheon of the Dara Happans and some vague allegiance to the liberty offered by the storm god. He would also have to decide if the beastmen (to whom he is somewhat allied) are being left behind by the tides of history or if the close relationship of man and beast can be maintained in the new world.

- Sartar proper, a set of cities, holy places, and clan-controlled areas connected by roads; includes the city of Boldhome.

I would vote for oldschool Sartar, and the fine city of Duck Point -- a human city near the Wild Temple of the Beastmen, the Necromancer's swamp, and ducks (curse your non-human rule)

1616-1625 or so - think of this as the occupational period ... mainly characterized, interestingly enough, by cultural mixing. A whole generation of Heortlings grow up heavily Lunarized, but far more nationalistic (rather than clan-centric) than they ever were before. It is also more overtly magical - the Lunars rely on horrifically powerful, escalating myth-magic to secure their hold on the area

I prefer this period, especially the "escalating myth-magic" idea


It the Grazer too outlandish for the Lunar/Heortling clash you are thinking of.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Blake, et al., all comments from anyone are welcome. However, not so much as in terms of preferences, just in questions and comments. For creative/example purposes, Lael, Ian, Andy, and I are the "group."

Details ...

- Yes, Telmori are the wolf-tribe (werewolves, essentially) in question. They're fairly difficult to work with, as they seem to have been variously screwed by their own Heortling culture as well as by the Lunars, at different times. Telmori characters have probably learned the hard way that they have to make highly individualized choices. I have no objection to a shaman character, although such a character tends to be very tightly linked to a given clan or community. Note that Telmori are hsunchen, in that they integrate animal spirits in a totemic fashion.

- Lael's location suggestion works for me. Note that we would be doing very canonical Glorantha play, as this was Stafford's group's stomping grounds in the 1970s and has some detailed maps available. That's OK by me, just letting you know. If we were to do (say) Black Horse County instead, we'd be "freer," but this way, we have more immediate source material with both the advantages and disadvantages we're all familiar with. (On the other hand, it would mean fun with Dragonewts, which is something I've dreamed of since high school.)

- Grazers are cool. I see them as one of the casualties of the Hero Wars; their young men and women are going to be swept up in the larger clashes around them for sure. Their skills will be very useful to the Sartarites, who are frankly for shit in mounted combat; their chiefs, by contrast, will be very tempted by Lunar offerings of treaties ... and note that the sun-spirit religion of the Grazers may find meaningful parallels from the Celestially-oriented Dara Happan missionaries. (epweissengruber's points are valid here, definitely)

- For everyone, think Bronze Age, Bronze Age. People don't travel very far from their homelands unless they're Lunar soldiers or traders or missionaries. "Society" and "country" are very vague concepts, as opposed to one's clan or immediate community. "War" was, to a Heortling, some kind of "big feud" and its scope, as brought to them in the fall of Boldhome in 1602, was world-view-shattering.

Best,
Ron

[Ayrizale]

- Yes, Telmori are the wolf-tribe (werewolves, essentially) in question. They're fairly difficult to work with, as they seem to have been variously screwed by their own Heortling culture as well as by the Lunars, at different times. Telmori characters have probably learned the hard way that they have to make highly individualized choices. I have no objection to a shaman character, although such a character tends to be very tightly linked to a given clan or community. Note that Telmori are hsunchen, in that they integrate animal spirits in a totemic fashion.

Telmori and Hsunchen, those were the terms that I was trying to remember.  If a Telmori Shaman would be problematic as a character, then then I'd prefer a Lunar Sorcerer.  If it is primarily the Telmori part that is a problem, then any kind of hsunchen Shaman would be interesting to me.  While reading the Animist Magic section, I was really taken with that concept.

- Lael's location suggestion works for me. Note that we would be doing very canonical Glorantha play, as this was Stafford's group's stomping grounds in the 1970s and has some detailed maps available. That's OK by me, just letting you know. If we were to do (say) Black Horse County instead, we'd be "freer," but this way, we have more immediate source material with both the advantages and disadvantages we're all familiar with. (On the other hand, it would mean fun with Dragonewts, which is something I've dreamed of since high school.)

Sorry, I'm a little unclear on that last sentence.  Are you saying that the location that I selected would be good for the Dragonewts, or the Black Horse Country would be better?  Fun with Dragonewts sounds like it might be fun, might give us the chance to be at least partially responsible for that dragon that comes along and eats the Lunar Army.  :)

Lael

[Ron Edwards]

Lael,

Telmori shaman or Lunar sorcerer. Just hold those as your faves, without choosing. Let's have Ian and Andy talk about what they might want, and it might be a bit before that happens. No need to rush.

About the Dragonewts, I was talking about the location you suggested. A certain emphasis on Draconic secrets and weirdness would be a neat aspect of play, as long as my preferences are being aired. (I got a pretty good dose of troll stuff from my last game, for instance, so I am not all psyched about them at the moment.)

Best,
Ron

[Ian O'Rourke]

Not a complaint, just an observation, but I think the last few posts have summed up why a number of people have problems with Glorantha. It was like a quick and fast burst of information (regarding the immediate locale of the game) that it leaves you reeling, and with a feeling you have cards missing from your deck!

I'm quite happy with all the suggested region with a few comments. On the positive side I love the idea of the Draconic weirdness - I think that is a brilliant idea. At the same time the only two cultures I even remotely have a handle on are the Heortlings and the Lunas - and I think (remember I don’t have a full deck of cards here) we've just been put in a territory that has cultures that just make say: whah? Not a problem, but something to keep in mind during the course of the threads development.

Since we have graduated into rough concepts for the game - I would add that in terms of the location being important I would think it would be cool if the location was important above and beyond the fact it is the home of our characters, or currently a political hot property. Is it important because of a mystical site? Or the site of a great myth?

I certainly think the mystery element is favoured over politics from my perspective - especially if these factors combine with relationship keywords in numerous ways (which I assume is the whole point of the Hero Wars game).

Final note, my post rate may be slower than everyone else.

[Ayrizale]

Not a complaint, just an observation, but I think the last few posts have summed up why a number of people have problems with Glorantha. It was like a quick and fast burst of information (regarding the immediate locale of the game) that it leaves you reeling, and with a feeling you have cards missing from your deck!

I understand what you mean.  I only have the Hero Wars deluxe set, and the copy of Runequest that I owned was lost long ago and, to the best of my recollection was never played.  I doubt that I know any more about the setting than you do.  I have read most of the main rule book and have worked my way through most of the Narrator's Guide and that is the extent of my Hero Wars/Glorantha knowledge.  So far, I think that Ron has done a fairly good job of explaining things in a manner that I can readily understand.

I'm quite happy with all the suggested region with a few comments. On the positive side I love the idea of the Draconic weirdness - I think that is a brilliant idea. At the same time the only two cultures I even remotely have a handle on are the Heortlings and the Lunas - and I think (remember I don't have a full deck of cards here) we've just been put in a territory that has cultures that just make say: whah? Not a problem, but something to keep in mind during the course of the threads development.

The one culture that interests me, the Telmori, gets a little bit of attention in the Player's Book in the section on Animist Magic.  They may have recieved a little coverage in the Narrator's Guide as well, I was bouncing between those books on Monday night so they have gotten a little blurred in my mind.

Final note, my post rate may be slower than everyone else.

My post rate will vary considerably.  Right now, I'm at work and pretty well caught up with everything that I need to do.  This weekend is kinda packed and I'll only have certain times when I can check and post.  Next week, the days should be similar to this.  After that, I'm on vacation from work, so will have plenty of free time.  Wednesday the 22nd, I'll probably be out of touch all day as we travel from Maryland to Arizona.  (Anyone in Yuma?  Want to meet and talk Hero Wars or just gaming in general?  :)  )  While we are in Arizona, I'll certainly have the time for reading and posting, at least in the evenings, probably be spending the days next to the pool.  :)

Lael

[Ayrizale]

Lael,

Telmori shaman or Lunar sorcerer. Just hold those as your faves, without choosing. Let's have Ian and Andy talk about what they might want, and it might be a bit before that happens. No need to rush.

Will do.  Those are certainly the two that have jumped out at me from reading the two books.  I'll wait and see what else develops and then we can work out the details.

About the Dragonewts, I was talking about the location you suggested. A certain emphasis on Draconic secrets and weirdness would be a neat aspect of play, as long as my preferences are being aired. (I got a pretty good dose of troll stuff from my last game, for instance, so I am not all psyched about them at the moment.)

Sounds good to me.  Secrets and Weirdness are always interesting to me.  :)

Lael

[epweissengruber]

I put together my ideas after perusing the map, and what I remember from playing King of Dragon Pass ... so even if we are in a "well-travelled" zone, so what ... it's ours now.

2 grazer postings, 2 duck point mentions: sounds good so far.

Black Horse County might be fun, but its our Glorantha, so the participants must go wild.

It would be a good learning experience to transform a well-known place into a very particular place for a set of gamers.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey epweissengruber,

I thought we'd both been clear on this ... you do realize that you're not part of the "group" who's doing the exercise? As with Blake and whoever else, all your comments and observations are welcome, but you're not part of the decision-making circle for the pseudo-game in question.

The use of "we" in your post made me a bit nervous about this issue.

Best,
Ron

[AndyGuest]

The middle time does sound most interesting to me. I have no objections to the discussed location and fun with dragonnewts.

Character-wise, well I'm just off to bed with the books to see what jumps out at me. I've got some loose thoughts in my head about someone who is a son of a conquered tribe, or maybe a tribe that chose to join the Lunars rather than fight against them. I like the idea of a chieftan's son who was too young to fight against (or even with) the Lunars and has come of age questioning his father's decisions.

Hmm, gonna go read the books and see how/if that can fit.

[Ron Edwards]

Andy,

That sounds like a good set of ideas to take to the books. As I recall, the Grazer or Heortling character creation rules will be just fine for your concepts.

Folks, feel free to post all you want, but I'll be returning to the discussion tomorrow at the earliest.

Best,
Ron

[epweissengruber]

Fingers moving faster than brain, apologies Ron

Sorry for stepping on toes

I retreat behind rock and spy ...

[Blake Hutchins]

I'll keep this short.  Neat process.  Ron's done a good job of collapsing the pertinent world points to identifiable choices, none too complex.  I've always liked the low-key Lunar Missionary or the Taraltaran mystic as starting point concepts, but the Heortling foederati idea has a lot of inherent conflict, which is my favorite of the ideas so far.  The Grazer and Telmori are also appealing.  The Lunar Sorcerer, too, is a nifty trope.  Lots of good stuff here.

I'm curious to see how a really polyglot group coheres in actual play.  You want to avoid the "ninja, dwarven chimney sweep, and giant red dragon"  feel to groups.  Running characters from a wide variety of cultures can be tricky unless care is taken to make sure there's a common nucleus around which the characters can orbit (and I don't mean the Bobby G. variety).

Best,

Blake