Art for arts sake?

[gds]

Hi all,

I'm new here, so play nice!

Like it seems everyone else in the world, I have been designing my own rpg, and am reasonably happy with it. It's at the 'needs playtesting' stage, but that's not why I'm posting. The trouble I have is that this is a totally personal project involving a lot of time, but no money. So, while writing for me has not been an issue, the art is. I can't draw for toffee, and I can't aford to pay for pretty art in what might turn out to be a totally pointless project (i.e. I think it's cool, everyone else thinks it's sh*te). So I have a bit of a quandry.

Do I stick in 'less than top notch' free art? Shell out for art and feed delusions of grandeur? Not knowing an awful lot about the indie rpg market, do people think there would be interest in a totally art-free game? I would like to POD the game, simply so I get a nice book with my name on it and others can do so too, but would people pay for good ol' fashioned text alone? It would be over 200 pages long...

I though folks might go for an art-less game, but then Burning Empires turned up on the doorstep and I felt like crying...

Any thoughts welcome!

Cheers,

Greg

[Jennifer Rodgers]

Howdy.

A game with no art would be just fine if it's designed really well.

Also, I'd suggest trying out clipart.com. (Or at least look into it.) You can pick out all of your graphic elements and art ahead of time and then sign up for one of the cheapest short-term memberships and go on a downloading spree. 

I would not suggest going with subpar free art. If someone good is willing to help you out, though, that's a different story.

Hope this helps!

[Clyde L. Rhoer]

Hi Greg,

Dogs in the Vineyard only had one piece of art on the front cover for the first edition. I'm not sure what it looks like now as that's the edition I have. It comes in at about 100 pages. My understanding is that it has been very successful.

Keep in mind that Burning Empires is the result of years of hard work and built upon a good name created by previous games. It may be a bit of a high mark to be considering for your first game.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Check out the thread [publishing] Getting art, for some links that are suited to your needs, it seems like.

Best, Ron

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

Each game is going to have its own individual needs.  Unfortunately, none of us can really tell you what a game *has to have* in order to sell as far as art goes.  Most would agree, though, that it's not the interior art that is the deciding factor on a person buying a game or not.  It's really about how fun it is.  A while back I wrote this article on where you can get decent art for little to no cost.  You might want to check it out and see if it suits your needs.

Peace,

-Troy

[gds]

Hey guys,

Cheers for the helpful comments. I'll chck that article out tonight, and I'll certainloy browse the clipart and what other spots in the forum have to offer.

Great stuff!

Greg

[Storn]

I have some pieces of 2nd use art available.  MOstly the character commissions that I do.  As I retain rights to those.  There are few that I was paid enough that a company that publishes superheroes snatched a few up with full rights.... so you would have to ask which are availalbe.

Fortunately or unfortunately, many of my character commissions are superheroes... but there are a smattering of other genres available.

Contact me at Stornc@aol.com if you are interested in a piece or two.  I'll tell you my rates.

Much of recent work can be seen here:
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Storn/

Older work and less likely to be available here:
http://www.stornc.rpggallery.com/

Any color picture can be made into a grayscale image, so don't think you all of sudden have to spring for full color printing.

[Storn]

Oops.  Also meant to say, other artists offer 2nd use rights as well.  Not all, but you can always ask.

[Sovem]

Using art that others have commissioned? Isn't that a little... weird?

I've seen your work before, and it's very good. Some of the art on that first link might even work well in my game. But wouldn't that be weird to be flipping through a book one day and see a piece of artwork that you had commissioned from some artist there in the game, totally out of the context you commissioned it for?

Would you at least recommend emailing the person who originally commissioned it, just out of courtesy?

[JakeVanDam]

Ussually when you commision a piece, the possibility of second rights, or at least who has the IP rights, will be discussed. If you comission a piece and attain all rights to it (more common with employed artists than normal commissions), you should be concerned. If the artists retained IP (more common with independant games), it's that artist's to do with as he pleases and the fact that he had made it to fit your needs doesn't really enter into it.

[Sovem]

While I certainly understand that legally speaking, don't you think it's at least polite to ask the comissioner, whether they have the right to say "no" or not?

[daMoose_Neo]

The smart thing is to negociate all of that up front. That way, you know full well the artist could/could not use it again and wouldn't be too shocked at such a hypothetical.
Several times, especially accquiring all of the work I need for Twilight sets, I work on a basis that anything pertaining to my characters is mine, whereas anything of a more generic nature or something not directly and obviously affiliated with my game is theirs to do with as they choose. Normally, this works out and artists I deal with don't have a problem with it. After all, there is less use for a blue coated, blonde haired mage standing atop a building wielding a silver staff. There's a little more use, however, for a hand gun, a crucifix, etc.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Sovem, this is not the place to debate ethics of publishing. The whole point of the Forge is self-publishing, meaning full policy control. If a person wants to conduct his publishing policy in a way which doesn't match your ethics, that's not your problem. It may or may not become his problem, in the future, but that's his look-out.

Based on your posts so far in this thread, I suggest that you'd do better to read and learn about artists and art use for a little while, before jumping in with judgments of weirdness or right-and-wrong. The things you're objecting to or questioning have typically resulted in better work, more reliable pay, and more willingness to work together in the future.

Best, Ron

[Sovem]

Perhaps I came across wrong. I did not mean to sound judgmental in any way; indeed, I was not judging. I thought it sounded like a very good idea, but then I wondered if it wouldn't be a little wierd.

Again, no objections here. Just curiosity.

[Ron Edwards]

Cool! No blood, no foul, as we used to say a lot around here.

So, it's time to check in with Greg - is this thread serving your needs in starting it? Do you have any specific questions, or want specific kinds of examples?

Best, Ron