[SOTC] Aspects and Consequences

[dbisdorf]

I've been reading through my PDF of Spirit of the Century and I'm eagerly waiting for a chance to run a game.  However, I have a few questions about the rules on Aspects and Consequences:

1) To get to the point where a character is Taken Out of a conflict (assuming the character doesn't concede), it looks like you have to overflow the character's stress chart four times: three times to generate consequences, and once for the final Taken Out result.  It seems as if it would take quite a few exchanges of rolls to get to this point.  Doesn't this draw out conflicts between significant characters to extreme lengths?  Or does it play out fairly quick in actual play?

2) If a PC suffers a consequence during a conflict, then what, as a GM, am I allowed to do with this consequence if I choose to compel it?  Can I only use it to discourage courses of action ("Your character is Bruised and probably can't leap into that passing truck, unless you pony up a fate point") or can I use it to give the NPC's rerolls or bonuses to rolls?  Does a villain have to spend a fate point in order to tag a character's consequence aspect, or can I, as GM, compel a character's consequence aspect freely and at will?

3) A PC must spend a fate point in order to tag an opponent's aspect.  However, as GM, I can compel a PC's aspect whenever I think is appropriate.  So in a conflict between a PC and a significant NPC, does the villain need to spend a fate point in order to tag a character's aspect, or can I just compel the aspect freely?  If the villain needs to spend a fate point, then what happens in a conflict between PC's and minions, who have no fate points?  Do the minions not get to take advantage of the PC's "Broken Wrist" consequence aspect?

Some of this may be just judgement calls on the part of the GM; however, I'd appreciate a little advice from the point of view of the creators.

Thanks,
Don

[iago]

1) It can play out quickly, but that's why there are concessions.  Most NPCs should be ready to give concessions -- or simply accept a taken out result immediately instead of taking a consequence -- when their stress tracks are overflowed.  This is very much the cinematic sensibility that the Big Boss Guys Are Slow To Drop, but everything else (minions or quick-to-concede NPCs) ain't.

2) You're more expected to tag it for +2's and rerolls when acting against the person who has the consequence (just follow the tagging rules), but the rare compel ("you have a leg injury, it's unlikely you'll scale that cliff with it") is apt.  The former originates from a specific NPC and thus should involve spending a fate point from that NPC's supply.  The latter is GM-originated (usually) and thus a fate point is still involved, but originates from the GM's effectively limitless supply.

3) Villains have their own FP supply (just look at the character sheets provided for them in the book, which should include an indication of the number of FP they have).  It's a question of things the villain is specifically doing to take advantage of a target's aspects, or whether it's "the story itself" (i.e., the GM) driving it, as to where the FPs spent come from.

[dbisdorf]

Okay, makes sense to me.  Thanks for the quick response!

[Hudson Shock]

1) To get to the point where a character is Taken Out of a conflict (assuming the character doesn't concede), it looks like you have to overflow the character's stress chart four times: three times to generate consequences, and once for the final Taken Out result. 

Actually, I don't think this is right.  To generate a consequence, all that is needed is for the target to either not have a Stress box available or to voluntarily choose not to fill in a Stress box.  You don't have to fill in all five Stress boxes for each Consequence.  You could take a guy out in five really good shots:

The first hit is a five-point hit, filling in the top Stress box.
The second hit is also a monster 5 pointer.  Since that Stress box is already filled in, the target can either choose to be Taken Out or take a minor consequence.
Ditto for the third hit, but now must take a Moderate Consequence.
Ditto for the fourth hit, but now it's a Major Consequence.
On the fifth hit, the target has no more options and has to be Taken Out.

Is that right, oh Gurus?  And is five shots the absolute minimum it would take to take out a dedicated character who refuses to concede at any point?

[iago]

Hudson, you've got it right.

[Hudson Shock]

Is there ever a reason to take a Consquence other than fill in a Stress box, if you've got the option?  Say you've taken a 3 point hit, and your 3 pt box is the only unfilled box on your Stress meter.  Filling it in would leave all your boxes filled, but you'd still be in the fight.  Can you think of any situation in which it would ever make sense to take even a Minor Consequence rather than fill in that box?

If not, that's fine.  I only ask because of this line from pg 67 of SotC:

Any time a character takes stress, he may opt not to check off a box and
instead take a consequence.  If the character takes a hit which he doesn't
have a box for, either because it's higher than the number of boxes on his
stress track, or because it rolls up past his last box, the character must take
a consequence.

Emphasis mine - along with the explanation of when a character must take a Consequence, it implies there are time when you don't have to take one, but you might want to anyway.

Thoughts/explanations?

[iago]

That's as much an option for a GM to exercise as anything.  A GM might want to use it as a method for controlling the pacing of a scene -- if a fight's dragging on long, he can always opt to have the bad guy take a couple consequences instead of waiting for the players to nickel and dime the stress boxes enough.

Make sense?

[Hudson Shock]

Yes.  No real tactical reason for a player to take the option, I'm guessing, though.

[iago]

Yes.  No real tactical reason for a player to take the option, I'm guessing, though.

None that I can see right off the bat... but hell, maybe someone will come up with a stunt where you get to do something awesome if you take a consequence first. :)

[John Harper]

Consequences are aspects, right? So, a creative player could take a consequence instead of the box hit, then turn around and tag that aspect for a bonus.

[Hudson Shock]

Consequences are aspects, right? So, a creative player could take a consequence instead of the box hit, then turn around and tag that aspect for a bonus.

You'd have to be pretty creative, but I suppose it's possible.  Hard to see "Sprained Ankle" or "Minor Concussion" being useful in a fight, though.

[iago]

I take a "Bruised and Battered" consequence.

Then I invoke it and say to the GM, "This pain... only makes me madder!"  Maybe the GM agrees.  And there's my +2.

[John Harper]

Remember the scene in Fight Club when Tyler lets the Mafia-type dude beat him to a pulp, then he grabs the guy and bleeds all over him and begs to use the basement space?

Yeah. That's some consequence tagging there. Big time.

[Hudson Shock]

Okay, yeah, that's awesome.

I'm thinking of starting a thread on rpg.net of examples of how SotC would handle examples from movies, books and real life.  Frex, I can see the famouse Rope-a-Dope Ali/Foreman fight being handled by having Ali force an Endurance vs. Endurance (or possibly Ali's Endurance vs. Foreman's Fists) to put an "Exhausted" Aspect on Foreman that Ali then continually tagged for the rest of the fight.

The Fight Club example is perfect.

There's a swordfight in the first Amber novel by Zelazny where the protagonist cuts his opponent's arm.  After a while, the blood loss starts to weaken his arm, and the protagonist starts to taunt him about it.  I can clearly see that handled through Maneuvers of different types in SotC, whereas it's very hard to model in many (dare I say the vast majority) of other games.

[dunlaing]

In the comic Runaways, one of the characters has a magic staff that only appears after she bleeds. Most of the time, she has to get cut in a fight or cut herself in order to bring out the staff. Something like that would be a cool image for a pulp character. You'd take "Bleeding" as a minor consequence, and then draw your magical staff out of the wound.