how to start up a test group once you have candidates (question)

[sean2099]

I recently posted a news item on gamingreport.com looking for beta playtesters.  I have some responses but I need to know what the next step should be?

To make it a bit easier, this is what I think should happen (feel free to correct me on any point if I am off base here or if I need to add anything.)

1.  Ask questions:
    a.  Demographic Data
         1.  general items (age, location, etc...nothing to reveal identity.)
         2.  similiar questions for the group.
    b.  Why are they interested in playing my game?
    c.  Are they willing to sign a NDA and to give feedback?
    d.  Permission to post above items.

2.  Send NDA and wait for signed copies.
3.  Send PDFs to everyone.
     a.  Give them time to play game w/o my interference.
     b.  Wait for responses.
4.  Be willing to listen to playtesters.
5.  Make any changes that they point and make sense.

One other question...does anyone have a sample NDA or know of a weblink where I could look at one.

Thanks,

Sean

[David Artman]

You might want to add something I am offering as incentives to review/test GLASS:
a) "Playtester" credit in the book to anyone who provides meaningful feedback of any kind (i.e. something a bit more detailed than "great game, we had fun").
b) "Contributor" credit in the book to anyone who provides feedback with advice that leads to a discrete, meaningful rule addition or change (i.e. something a bit more than correcting typos, simple logic errors, or obvious omissions).
c) Any GM that runs a GLASS playtest, with a full report, will get a hardback book when it's released, in addition to whatever credit he or she might also gain by the nature of his or her feedback. (FYI, the "player's book"--Shot GLASS, with just the core rules and no art, examples, or flavor text--will always be available as a free PDF download.)

HTH;
David

[sean2099]

Hi David,

Of course, rewards...I thought about them but did not include in the last post for some reason.  I envisioned a & c but not b on your list of rewards.  Thanks for the advice

Sean

Keep it coming.

[Valamir]

You might also want to really consider whether an NDA is necessary. 

What risks are you specifically trying to protect? Are those risks really substantial or are some of them more imagined?  Will an NDA actually give you any protection anyway?  NDAs generally require a lawsuit to enforce...if you're not willing to foot the bill for a lawsuit the NDA isn't really much of a deterrant.  Further, as a contract, unless there is some consideration given (consideration = value) to the signing party that can be judged to be equivalent to what they're giving away by signing it, it may not be upheld in court anyway.  In other words REALLY strict NDA language for which you're giving them "credit in the book" in exchange is less likely to be upheld than modestly strict NDA language for which they received cash in return for agreeing to it.

The reason this is an important issue to consider here is two fold.  1) there's no quicker way of stifling interest in a playtest than to break out the NDA.  You'll likely get more takers without one.  2) The buzz generated by people talking about your game is a potent marketing force that you may stifle and do more harm to yourself than good.

I asked for an NDA when I was playtesting Universalis.  It was pointless.  I'll never waste my time on them again.

Combine that with the number of times I've heard people say "I could tell you some really cool stuff that would get you excited...but I can't because of my NDA" and for me I'm thinking..."I WANT you tell people some really cool stuff about my game that will get them excited...why would I want you to sign something that prevents you from doing that?"

Some situations, maybe...but as a rule...not worthwhile in my book.

[sean2099]

Hey Valamir,

You have given me some foot for thought.  I never of it like that.  I have just heard people make people sign it as a matter of course.  I am in the situition where I could use the buzz and playtesters.  It has been a struggle to generate it for my game.  Anyway, I was thinking of a modestly worded NDA...more of a "test of honesty" than a strict legal document.  Out of curiousity, when would use NDA?  For products you are designing for others or for what other reasons?  I am asking in the hopes of coming up with a good process for running the test group.

[joepub]

Sean,
I'm not going to try and touch the question of "when would use NDA?" because that starts to get lawyer-y.

But, I will say this much: A Non-Disclosure Agreement means people can't disclose how fucking cool your game is.
People can't say "Oh, Tom, you should totally check out Sean's game for an idea how to structure creation stories!"
People can't say, "Oh, kinda like in Sean's game, {insert title here. Sorry, I forget it right now.} In Sean's game, X happens."

People spreading the word about the cool stuff in your game is what you totally want!
People borrowing from your ideas is, in my opinion, a good thing.

If someone were to say, "I want to take this mechanic and this setting colour from Perfect" I'd be ecstatic. It would mean that people like Perfect, that its ideas are being spread, and that I'm getting more representation in the long run.

[sean2099]

A revised 'blueprint' for running test group.

1.  Ask questions:
    a.  Demographic Data
         1.  general items (age, location, etc...nothing to reveal identity.)
         2.  similar questions for the group.
    b.  Why are they interested in playing my game? 
    c.  Are they running a game or does the game creators need to play matchmaker?
    d.  Are they willing to give feedback?
    e.  Permission to post above items.
    f.   Mention any incentives you want to offer: anywhere from nothing to "credit and a copy" to   
         actual cash.

NDA (optional step 2) - choice needs to be made...NDA - a document intended to keep secrets and lost buzz or no NDA - unrestricted buzz, less recourse for keeping material under wraps.

2.  Send NDA and wait for signed copies.
3.  Send PDFs or other shared medium to everyone.
     a.  Give them time to play game w/o my interference.
     b.  Wait for responses.

4.  Be willing to listen to playtesters. 
5.  Make any sensible changes suggested to you by playtesters.
6.  Repeat 4-6 until you are satisfied with results.
7.  End Test - you should be ready for final editing...

How does the above sound?  I hope this is helping some people.

Sean

PS  Please keep the advice coming.

[joepub]

Sean, what I personally would do:

1. Post about your game, get interested "candidates"
2. Email them the PDF
3. Also email them a 1-2 page document that outlines how best to prep the game, and how best to post Actual Play and comments
4. Check in after 1-2 weeks, if you haven't seen an AP or comments made.

Your process seems unnecessarily long and complicated. But that's just MY person way of going about stuff.
I'd hate to turn people off by chucking a questionaire at them.

[sean2099]

Sean, what I personally would do:

1. Post about your game, get interested "candidates"
2. Email them the PDF
3. Also email them a 1-2 page document that outlines how best to prep the game, and how best to post Actual Play and comments
4. Check in after 1-2 weeks, if you haven't seen an AP or comments made.

Your process seems unnecessarily long and complicated. But that's just MY person way of going about stuff.
I'd hate to turn people off by chucking a questionaire at them.

I could see this list as a short and to the point statement for self-created games.  As I see it, some people like more details, options and information than others.  I was also trying to include people writing for other people...I realize the Forge is for creator owned games vs "work for hire" but I thought I should "give a nod" to the other side as well. 

Sean

[andrew_kenrick]

I'll second Joe's comments about how an NDA can kill the buzz. With Dead of Night we ran a substantial playtest over 12 months, with about 5 or 6 groups actively taking part. We generated some excellent playtest reports out of it, but because I was stuck in my little legal NDA box the only people who have ever got to see these were those under NDA. I shot any buzz I could have generated in the head, right there. Never again.

[sean2099]

Ok, I see the value in not using a NDA. 

With that said, is there anything else that people should be aware of if they are wanting to start a playtesting group?  I appreciate all of the suggestions but I also want to keep the "production" going.  Any other misconceptions, besides the belief about NDA (and why you may not want to use one.)

Thanks,

Sean

[sean2099]

Oh, I wish I could edit...oh well.

For clarity's sake, does the advice given stand whether group is formed strictly online or it is a group of "real life" friends getting together?

Sean