Questions about Spiritual Attributes

[Jaif]

Let me toss a more specific example out there, because I get the sense we use some words (e.g. story) slightly differently.

Imagine the group decides to play a game centered around the cold war between Stahl & Gelure.  Everyone, with this setting in mind, makes their characters and does a reasonable job of keeping them consistant to group play.

I make a character who comes from the fallen kingdom of Farrenshire.  He has a Drive: Oppose Gelure and Passion: Hatred for the current Military Governor in Farrenshire.  Having seen enough carnage and unholy magics to last a lifetime, this character turns to Stahl Atheism in spades.  A decent conscience & some luck rounds out this character.

We play many adventures in this setting: revealing Gelure agents in Stahl, tracking down rogue sorcerers heading to join Gelure, the underground railroad from Farrenshire, and so on.  Lots of happy-happy sessions.

Another character in the group happened to pick the Prophet as his faith, and plays a relatively faithful but cosmopolitan adventurer. He's always helping, and adds color to the situation.

One day our young Propheteer runs into a wise man of his people.  They spend some time around the fire telling tales, when the wise man asks the fatefull question: what did you feel during your pilgramage to Hakhmah?  The character is embarassed: he never made his pilgrimage.  In fact, he realizes now that he's been avoiding it, and risking death while so doing.  He decides to make the pilgrimage.

All the characters decide to come along.  No, not a sheep-like maneuver; they're all friends, comrades in arms, and if one of them needs to make a trek of this magnitude, then all will assist.  On the flip side, all the players agree this would be a fun excursion, and a welcome change of pace.

Now the players are working this out.  It's a many game-session affair, and my character's drive & passion have nothing to do with it.  In mechanical terms, my drive & passion are low right now anyway, simply because I've bought up some skills.

So now I'm out playing a supporting role, while the Propheteer guy gets lead for a time.  I do a really good job: I come up with some brilliant plans, memorable die-rolls, make tough choices at the right time and follow-through on them, and actually survive many challenges to my faith.

I build up points over the sessions, and soon my luck/passion/conscience are maxed.  I want to buy this one attribute up: it's what I've been working towards.  But I can't and by the game system I'm forced to spend my points elsewhere (or lose them, I suppose).



Sorry for the length.  All I was saying before is that in this situation, where the mechanics smack into decent gaming, as a GM I'd be happy to let a player slide a bit and stash some points away.

Now, if a character is only playing one of his SAs all the time, I can see being dictatorial.  But for me there's got to be some flexibility on the GM's part when the system starts to arbitrarily penalize people who are just having fun.

Last point - this is a situation "at the edge".  Frankly, the layaway shouldn't be needed at all normally.

-Jeff

[Ron Edwards]

Hi everybody,

Jake,
Clinton started the multiple-scene play discussion here in the RPG Theory forum, so c'mon over. Anyone else, too.

Jeff (Jaif),
I see your point, and I also want to say that working this stuff out with you in dialogue is always a pleasure.

I think (if I'm not reading the system wrong) that the solution exists already.

We're talking about the Passion and Destiny attributes being "left out," right? Wouldn't the very fact that the character is, for all intents and purposes, ignoring his Passion and Destiny (the latter being pretty in-character psych and the latter being more metagame-y) lead to those SA's dropping? All the while he's helping his Prophet-worshipping pal, God knows what's going on back in Farrenshire, etc.

So they have an adventure on the way to Hakhmah, and when they're done, our hero has to decide - OK, turn back? Go home and fight the good fight? Or proceed further to this (frankly) heathen place? If he proceeds, drop that Passion.

So I see his Passion and (maybe) Destiny dropping. They might drop to 0. I can see his Passion (loyal to pal) growing. All sorts of things can happen from there: e.g., he might leave Destiny down at 0 and just build it back up again when they get back to war-torn Gelure-fighting again. At the most extreme, the character could change radically.

My real point, though, is for the duration of this excursion or detour, the character's SAs will almost certainly change, starting with a nosedive to 0 for at least one of them. The Passion seems inevitable in this regard; so would a Drive. Destiny is kind of funny, of course; he might find that a black-clad squad of Propheteer horsemen think he's just the coolest, so he brings them back home (which is a kickass Destiny development).

Best,
Ron

[Jake Norwood]

Ron's solution is the one that I myself always imagined, but by the same token I think that the "extreme circumstances" layaway plan that you describe has potential. It all goes back to the "make the game what you need it to be" principle, and you're proposal for a layaway plan fits that bill perfectly.

As a side note, that's a pretty cool campaign-in-a-bottle.

Jake

[Jaif]

> As a side note, that's a pretty cool campaign-in-a-bottle.

Thanks.  I was envisioning all sorts of power-hungry, lackluster leadership on all sides.  Gelure expands, grabs a lot of land, and then Uglub portions it out amongst his people.  The truth is, though, he expanded on the backs of sorcerers, and these are a bunch of driven & powerful folk who are tough to please.  Furthermore, since sorcery costs so much, the sorcerers tend to pass on jobs unless it means something to them personally.

As for Stahl, they have their own problems.  As a nation they are almost unbeatable physically, but they lack a unified will.

My personal hangup with the campaign so far is how to stop Uglub's (or anybody's) sorcery.  A sorcerer can kill someone at a range instantly, which is a tough act to balance.  It becomes tougher when you realize that a demon can probably wipe out the population of a castle without much trouble.

I think part of my solution is to detail every one of Uglub's sorcerers, say all 35 or 40 of them.  Not all of them will be "PC level", and some will be much more powerfull.  Furthermore, there ambitions will hopefully have a self-balancing effect.

Still, I need to think of how sorcerers are opposed consistantly, both by each other and by humans with means.

-Jeff

[Atomic Requiem]

Still, I need to think of how sorcerers are opposed consistantly, both by each other and by humans with means.

Hmm, beautiful question. I'd love to see this one explored. Sorcerors are as powerful as they are rare, and seem likely to have even more of an effect on their surroundings than, dare I say, other games where magic achieves a sort of utilitarian commonality. A smart sorceror should live "for ever."

Also, how likely are sorcerors to be involved in solving the riddle of steel? How much is their trade similiar to the bladeslingers, and are they likely to "figure it out"?

I think I need to reread the intro story to Book 6, and little section on "What is the Riddle?" again. :)

*AR*

[OllyG]

How do sorcerers live forever.
Magic cannot reverse aging and sorcerers age by casting magic (and by living if they are not Fey).
Do people think it is reasonable to have a spell that slows or stops human aging?

[Sneaky Git]

Do people think it is reasonable to have a spell that slows or stops human aging?

Not as far as I understand the rules.. If you accept the rules of nature as represented in TROS to be fact, then I would say that's a no-no.

[Brian Leybourne]

Do people think it is reasonable to have a spell that slows or stops human aging?

Not as far as I understand the rules.. If you accept the rules of nature as represented in TROS to be fact, then I would say that's a no-no.

Yeah, I suspect he's referring to the 10,000 year old sorcerer described in the story at the start of the sorcery chapter :-)

Lets just say that under the rules, such a feat is pretty much impossible. But each persons game is their own, and who knows what a crafty seneschal/character can come up with.

For example, some of the folk on here have proposed body transferral spells, allowing an aged sorceror to find a (gifted) youth and take over their body, thus lengthening his life that way.

Or maybe although you can't "get younger", you can suck the age out of your own body by channeling it into another specially prepared one.

Or...

Etc.

Brian.

[Sneaky Git]

For example, some of the folk on here have proposed body transferral spells, allowing an aged sorceror to find a (gifted) youth and take over their body, thus lengthening his life that way.

But.. that would be evil.. *snicker*

[Rattlehead]

If I'm not mistaken, the fellow in the story that you're talking about isn't exactly human. Isn't he some supernatural sort? Been a while since I've read this particular part of the backstory, but he's supposed to be one of "The Nine" or something. I think....  Then again, my voice could be muffled - because I could be talking out of my ass.....

Brandon

[Brian Leybourne]

If I'm not mistaken, the fellow in the story that you're talking about isn't exactly human. Isn't he some supernatural sort? Been a while since I've read this particular part of the backstory, but he's supposed to be one of "The Nine" or something. I think....  Then again, my voice could be muffled - because I could be talking out of my ass.....

Brandon

So? :-)

Still doesn't change the fact that he's a sorcerer who has somehow survived 10,000 years. Even if he's ageless like the fey, he should still have aged through magic enough to die within 10,000 years, right...?

Brian.

[Lance D. Allen]

Only the wise live so long.. Methinks he was wise, and Fey. Remember, you only age if you FAIL to resist your aging roll....

[Lyrax]

Rolls, not roll.  VERY big difference.

[Mike Holmes]

Rolls, not roll.  VERY big difference.

And if he only uses his magic once in ten thousand years, he only makes those Rolls once. That would be the sign of true wisdom.

Mike