In need of informational source

[TroyLovesRPG]

I've read the posts and using the (basic) - (expertise) - (specialty) is unrealistic in that order. Conversely, people actually specialize while acquiring all the skills simultaneously. With most technical occupations, you cannot perform the task, fly the machine, use the equipment, etc. until you have specific training in it. As you learn more about the specifics you gain more basic knowledge, not the other way around. And your basic knowledge will max out because there is only so much basic knowledge you can have.

I suggest that characters buy specific skills for the jobs/equipment they have and must buy the requisite group and basic skills for that specialty. Let's say that the specialty skill requires a group skill at 2/3 that level (maxing at 5) and the basic skill at 1/3 (maxing at 3). Example: Bob trains to be a huey pilot of 6 and must also buy rotary wing at 4 and basic pilot at 2. That's 12 slots of training he must buy. If he wants to train to pilot a double rotor transport then he can buy any level (up to 6) in that without having to spend the extra points for rotary wing and basic pilot (he already has those skills). He could increase his specialty level, but must also pay for an increase in the group and basic skills. To fly a piper cub at 6 he needs fixed wing at 4 and basic pilot at 2. He has basic pilot at 2 now, and just needs to pay 10 points for the others. However, increasing your basic or group skills don't increase your specialty skills unless the group skill pushes beyond it. Also, when your specialty skill reaches 10 you know longer have to pay for group or basic skills.

So, there are no effective basic pilots out in the world who have no specific training. People get specific training and learn basic skills that can be taken to other areas.

With that, you can use every item, vehicle, military maneuver, medical procedure and occupational task as the actual name of the specialty skill. Form groups from those sklls then designate basic training. The characters buy the specialties first and then pay for the basic skills they've learned. A character can try to peform a skill he doesn't have at the appropriate group level or at the basic level if he lacks the group level. If he doesn't have the basic skills then it would be foolish for him to attempt it. You now have the perfect way for characters to be experts and have some solid cross-skills. Contrast that to the typical player wanting to be incompetent at everything, attempting to perform complex tasks by the seat of their pants.

You could easily combine your skills and equipment charts. List the item, along with the group skill and basic skill. Your players will instantly be able to decide what kind of equipment they want to match their skills, or what skills they need to be competent with the equipment they've acquired.

Troy

[Reithan]

I think the problem here is I've not communicated the skill system very well.

The main skills, by themselves, are really just skill categories.

You'll see things like "Drive/Pilot", "Athletics", "Operation", etc.

ANY skill, at the time it's acquired, requires a "Primary Use" to be associated with it. This denotes what the character's specific skill in that category is. So you'd see things like:

Drive/Pilot - Car
Drive/Pilot - Jet
Drive/Pilot - Speedboat
Athletics - Track & Field
Athletics - Rock Climbing
Athletics - Swimming
Operation - Forklift
Operation - Computer
Operation - Particle Accelerator

There's no specific list of "Primary Use"s that will be listed in the book, although, under each category there will be a few examples of good primary uses.

The additional "Specialty" designator tacks on the end of this and is tacked on when a character becomes a "Specialist" in a certain aspect of that Skill. A good example may be "Athletics - Swimming - SCUBA Diving" or "Athletics - Track & Field - Hurdles"

The categorization of aircraft will help to list examples for Primary Uses, but mainly it'll help me with creating vehicles for the gear section, among other things.

[TroyLovesRPG]

Hello,

I did misunderstand. That was a good thing for me. Now I've got a new skill/equipment system. Thanks. :)

With your catergories, you may still want to use some type of occupation/training format. If the categories provide no cross-skill benefits or the category isn't a default level, then you can be more creative in that respect. Example: you have operation/forklift and operation/computer. Since computers aren't related to forklifts, the operation "primary use" becomes redundant and adds confusion. Well, it confused me. The word "operation" is vague and has different meanings for skills. Operating a computer is not the same as writing a program, doing research, changing a motherboard or even shopping for a computer. Your skill levels may be able to specify that.

Since this is cyberpunkish (hence post-modern) you can bet that a lot of training is provided by corporations, governments, military branches, universities and other organized groups. Try grouping your skills that way. At least a player could see what type of traning would be needed for a security agent working for the Oracular Financial Group or was a lieutenant in the Navy SEALS. I would be overwhelmed with a skill list and have no way to understand what it takes to have a certain position. Then list your skills by the item and then have a task type, if necessary. Example: 9mm Semi Automatic Pistol is the skill. It is assumed you can operate, clean and shoot the gun. Piper-Cub would have two subskills: pilot and mechanic. Most pilots know if there is something wrong with their aircraft, but seldom know how to repair them. Having both skills would be advantageous.

Also, be very thoughtful about how you categorize your skills. Most gamers are intelligent and picky. Athletics - Swimming - SCUBA Diving is a poor example. SCUBA Diving has nothing to do with swimming. You swim underwater while diving, but swimming doesn't lead you to SCUBA tranining. Try looking at college class lists or get a hold of official training packages from the government websites. This is a perferct opportunity to make this as real as possible. Your players will thank you.

Troy

[Reithan]

Hello,

I did misunderstand. That was a good thing for me. Now I've got a new skill/equipment system. Thanks. :)

With your catergories, you may still want to use some type of occupation/training format. If the categories provide no cross-skill benefits or the category isn't a default level, then you can be more creative in that respect. Example: you have operation/forklift and operation/computer. Since computers aren't related to forklifts, the operation "primary use" becomes redundant and adds confusion. Well, it confused me. The word "operation" is vague and has different meanings for skills. Operating a computer is not the same as writing a program, doing research, changing a motherboard or even shopping for a computer. Your skill levels may be able to specify that.

Since this is cyberpunkish (hence post-modern) you can bet that a lot of training is provided by corporations, governments, military branches, universities and other organized groups. Try grouping your skills that way. At least a player could see what type of traning would be needed for a security agent working for the Oracular Financial Group or was a lieutenant in the Navy SEALS. I would be overwhelmed with a skill list and have no way to understand what it takes to have a certain position. Then list your skills by the item and then have a task type, if necessary. Example: 9mm Semi Automatic Pistol is the skill. It is assumed you can operate, clean and shoot the gun. Piper-Cub would have two subskills: pilot and mechanic. Most pilots know if there is something wrong with their aircraft, but seldom know how to repair them. Having both skills would be advantageous.

Technically, this isn't really cyberpunk. It's a hybrid of sci-fi and cyberpunk. I know what I want it to "feel" and "look" like in my head, and it has elements of both, it may be, arguably, closer to Cyberpunk, though, so point taken.

And yes, the different basic skills CAN encompass vastly different actual skills. That's (somewhat) on purpose. The primary use allows you to do THOSE tasks without penalty, although, within that category, you can do other things, with penalties depending on how similar the tasks are. Also, a character my combine skills with similar primary uses to consolidate skills. I've already tested the skill system a bit, and I have to say, of all things, so far, it's the least problematic mechanic, probably. It works very well.

Also, be very thoughtful about how you categorize your skills. Most gamers are intelligent and picky. Athletics - Swimming - SCUBA Diving is a poor example. SCUBA Diving has nothing to do with swimming. You swim underwater while diving, but swimming doesn't lead you to SCUBA tranining. Try looking at college class lists or get a hold of official training packages from the government websites. This is a perferct opportunity to make this as real as possible. Your players will thank you.

Troy

This is actually a big feature of this skill system. Since the "Primary Uses" and "Specialties" aren't set in stone, a given gaming group can be as loose or as picky as they want with it. It basically just boils down to what the other players and GM are willing to let you get away with. I've said to players at times "That's too broad, tighten it up a bit", but in the same hand, I've also said to players, "That's pretty specific, zoom out your focus a bit, maybe take that as a Specialization, if you want?"

If you'd like to take a look at some examples, I'm having my playtesting group document their characters as we go (we're reaching the end of character creation...we're actually hung up by the gear right now, one character's playing a pilot and I'm stuck making his craft... >.>

But, anyway, the link's in my signature, and all the finished rules, some fiction, a setting guide, my players' characters and more is all posted on there under the header "Penetrator." Feel free to join the forums and contribute there, too.

Thanks again, Reithan.