Learning to play and Run the riddle (and a humorous bit)

[Ace]

Thanks for the advice!

There is a lot to consider in all your posts so I will stew on it for a while. Until then I well I have said all I need.

[Lance D. Allen]

Okay, I'm a little numb from reading through this whole thread, but I do remember one of the points I wanted to address.. Lethality and Injury in TROS..

I have fought 7 duels with 2 opponents. I have lost and died 5 of those (Shortsword isn't the best for head-on duels.. but then, the character wasn't designed for head-on duels, anyhow) The other two, the two that I won, my character took absolutely no damage, and his opponent didn't die. My point?

Combat is lethal, and dangerous.. But it doesn't have to be. Play it careful, take only the risks you can afford, and make the best of your goofups. And when it comes down to it... Not all NPCs (or PCs, for that matter) need to be stone-cold killers. Most bounty hunters and guards will prefer to take an opponent without bloodshed, or failing that, alive. Tiberius could have finished his opponent easily both times that he won (after the very first hit) but chose to hold off, and demand a surrender. (Because it was a duel, the surrender was denied... but it's IC for Ti to do so).

But, even if this additional consideration isn't enough to sway your players.. It may not be meant to be. Some people just like D&D, and that's fine. If it really comes down to it, D&D is a niche game too... it's just got a really big niche. TRoS will find it's player base, but it's player base may not overlap with a lot of others.

[Jake Norwood]

One thing to remember, too, concerning lethality in duels. One of you is gonna die. If both characters are roughly equal, then a degree of "luck and randomness is gonna solve this" is to be expected. If you run 7 combats in D&D with 10th level characters, one is gonna die...but D&D doesn't have a lethal system.

It really and only can be shown in real play.

Jake

[Rattlehead]

One thing to remember, too, concerning lethality in duels. One of you is gonna die. If both characters are roughly equal, then a degree of "luck and randomness is gonna solve this" is to be expected. If you run 7 combats in D&D with 10th level characters, one is gonna die...but D&D doesn't have a lethal system.

It really and only can be shown in real play.

Jake

You're absolutely right Jake. In truth, as far as the duels between Lance and myself are concerned, we started out just to try out the combat system. Things have begun to evolve though, and we're seeing the roleplaying elements force themselves to the surface. Eventually, we'll get the chance to try the "Real Thing"TM. I, for one, can't wait!

Brandon

[Bankuei]

Not all NPCs (or PCs, for that matter) need to be stone-cold killers

Exactly.  My current character, Jocelin, in Clinton's campaign, uses a quarterstaff and is very much against taking lives.  He's willing to break an arm or a leg if he has to, but not to kill.  In fact, most people will be fighting either a) to get something, or b) get somewhere(past guards, escape, etc.)  All you  need to do is hurt someone enough so they won't chase you, and make a run for it.

Chris

[Jaif]

Not all NPCs (or PCs, for that matter) need to be stone-cold killers

I agree this is key as well.  I've been spending years with my gaming friends trying to convince them that they don't have to kill everything they fight, and that they can surrender occasionally rather than go down fighting.  Both are heroic. Yes, heros do surrender; then they escape from jail.<g>

In TRoS terms; once you've done, say, a lvl 3 leg wound to a normal person the fight is probably over.  Your next move can always be to step out of range and leave them there lying.

Finally there is a huge difference in people's eyes between fighting and killing, too.  Socially, the latter is most often unexeceptable while the former can either be excused or restitution can be made.

-Jeff

[contracycle]

Some comments on the lethality issue, from someone who ran a similar system for several years.

The increase in lethality is a good thing - characters start behaving more like real people.  So do NPC's.  The biggest shift, for my money, is that it made people think about what they were doing in combat much more.  In D&D, you just rolled until it was over.  With realistic systems, people go "there's three of them?  We'll ambush the first and confront the other two".  Characters, especially PC's, start to run away (woohoo!).  If they inflict a nasty leg wound which is impairing to an enemy, why not disengage and talk? - the old swine could get lucky, its not worth the risk.  This is another important lesson for GM's - most NPC's will NOT fight to death, and almost never to the last man.  D&D fights often looked like massacres - a realistic system gives a much better distribution of injuries and the walking wounded.

On the down side, I found I seldom played NPC's to the best of my abilities - I had to dumb down and make deliberately stupid decisions on their behalf.  But stuff like that is good and adds to the depth of sim; people are behaving more reasonably and plausibly.  But it did start to annoy a bit, especially as I hesitated to lay a heavy glove on the PC's for obvious reasons.  So probably the person who gets the least joy out of such systems is the GM.