Questions on spiritual attributes

[Jaif]

2) Characters (especially thief-characters) are not heroes, good guys, white hats, or anything else of the sort, they are PEOPLE.

Again, before I dive in let me repeat that you can run your campaign any way you wish.  I recognize that it's a game and you can derive your fun however you like.

However, you are wrong in game system terms.  The game is aimed at making heros.  It uses the word hero constantly.  It actually asks you to formulate a concept & background for your "hero-in-the-making" at one point.

You miss the most important passage when you just dive into the guts of the paragraph like that. "Drive defines an extra level of determination and a powerful sense of purpose."

I didn't miss it, I went to the sentances that qualified that one.  It's not a standalone sentance, its determination and purpose as further defined by the remainder of the paragraph.  Is your character:

a) prepared to die for his cash? (second sentance)
b) zealous in the same sense that William Wallace was? (Will he scream "gold!" when he's disemboweled near the tower of London?<g>)

Last, I think you skipped another point I made, so I'll make it a different way.  I've worked as a consultant on wall street before (computer stuff), and been around people who are driven to make money.  These aren't pleasant or fun people; their entire existance is wrapped around money making, and they honestly don't care about things like their personal health, other people's health, and so on.

This isn't to say that everybody on wall street is like that.  Plenty of people on wall street try to make money, and work hard at doing so.  However, their families do have some priority, they do follow sports, work out, get two weeks every year on a boat away from everything, and so on.  They want money, but not enough to die for.

-Jeff

[Mokkurkalfe]

Why don't I show the entire description here for all of us to analyze?

Drive defines an extra level of determination and a powerful sense of purpose. Someone with Drive has a worthy cause that they would die for (and probably will). Examples include the zeal of freedom fighters and patriots like William Wallace, or those that serve great and noble causes or ideals att great personal cost.

It seems that only really motivated persons have a Drive. I don't think thieves would have a collect money-drive(maybe merchants would).
If you play a PC with a drive like that one, criminality is probably your career, since run-of-the-mill street thieves just want to survive.
A professional thief might have something like Drive: Break into king's palace, steal scepter and be known as the best thief ever.

I think a collector might have a Passion for whatever it is he's collecting.

[Bob Richter]

2) Characters (especially thief-characters) are not heroes, good guys, white hats, or anything else of the sort, they are PEOPLE.

Again, before I dive in let me repeat that you can run your campaign any way you wish.  I recognize that it's a game and you can derive your fun however you like.

However, you are wrong in game system terms.  The game is aimed at making heros.  It uses the word hero constantly.  It actually asks you to formulate a concept & background for your "hero-in-the-making" at one point.

You miss the most important passage when you just dive into the guts of the paragraph like that. "Drive defines an extra level of determination and a powerful sense of purpose."

I didn't miss it, I went to the sentances that qualified that one.  It's not a standalone sentance, its determination and purpose as further defined by the remainder of the paragraph.  Is your character:

a) prepared to die for his cash? (second sentance)
b) zealous in the same sense that William Wallace was? (Will he scream "gold!" when he's disemboweled near the tower of London?<g>)

Last, I think you skipped another point I made, so I'll make it a different way.  I've worked as a consultant on wall street before (computer stuff), and been around people who are driven to make money.  These aren't pleasant or fun people; their entire existance is wrapped around money making, and they honestly don't care about things like their personal health, other people's health, and so on.

This isn't to say that everybody on wall street is like that.  Plenty of people on wall street try to make money, and work hard at doing so.  However, their families do have some priority, they do follow sports, work out, get two weeks every year on a boat away from everything, and so on.  They want money, but not enough to die for.

-Jeff

You have yet to prove I'm wrong in game mechanical terms. The "Examples Include" section clearly isn't part of the definition, and if my character IS prepared to die for the accumulation of money, why can't it be a Drive? Just because he won't scream out "Silver!" when he dies the messy death that is his destiny? PAH!

As I said, the system doesn't make moral judgements. Rather, it invites YOU to make them, and if you're already so unheroic as to be a thief....

...or if you're just a hero of a different stripe...

...that moral judgement clearly doesn't apply.

(And who says "heros" have to be "pleasant?")

[Bob Richter]

Why don't I show the entire description here for all of us to analyze?

Drive defines an extra level of determination and a powerful sense of purpose. Someone with Drive has a worthy cause that they would die for (and probably will). Examples include the zeal of freedom fighters and patriots like William Wallace, or those that serve great and noble causes or ideals att great personal cost.

It seems that only really motivated persons have a Drive. I don't think thieves would have a collect money-drive(maybe merchants would).
If you play a PC with a drive like that one, criminality is probably your career, since run-of-the-mill street thieves just want to survive.
A professional thief might have something like Drive: Break into king's palace, steal scepter and be known as the best thief ever.

I think a collector might have a Passion for whatever it is he's collecting.

Except that Passions clearly DON'T COVER abstract ideas like "collecting" or objects like "gemstones." They apply only to ENTITIES.

So while you may have a Passionate love for the Fey Pricess Tatiana, you can't have a Passionate desire for her shoes (no matter HOW weird you are.)

I agree with you. Your average street thief (as if there is such a thing.) probably doesn't have a Drive: to make money.

I was just saying there's nothing wrong (in mechanical terms) with that sort of Drive.

[Lyrax]

Just let your own personal Seneschal handle it, because that's what he's there for.