[TSOY] well, they say they had a good time...

[Thierry Michel]

I wanted to try TSOY for a long time, but it's only recently that I managed to find interested players. I intended to run a one-shot, but since they were not too keen on using pre-gens, we had a first session of character creation. I gave them a fairly specific setting: an Ammenite plantation in the mangrove, they came up with one zaru acting as spiritual leader for the slave community, a ratkin "ranger" leaving in the nearby swamp and an elf acting as travelling tourist, more or less. I wanted the group to have a natural feel, so we spent the first session (which was to be the only session) trying to put together the group. The bang which was supposed to set up things in motion was that the plantation owner has brought in a bunch of irregular soldiers (which I made as scary as possible) to hunt escaped slaves and destroy the ratkin "undergound railway" that allowed them to flee.  So the slave "leader" was used as a bait, being told by the soldiers to fake an evasion to draw in the ratkins, the elf came along for the sport and the ratkin guided the two of them to his den and his family, with the hunters following the group. They are "now" holed in the den, trying to convince the ratkins to free the rest of the slaves.

I was a bit disappointed with my performance as a GM, since the players were pretty passive, and I had to be very forceful to get them moving (for instance: the soldiers announcing they will crucify one slave for each day they have to spend here). Even so, they said they had a great time, and when I proposed at the end of the session to wrap things up, they insisted to have a second session. So, maybe this post is a solution in search of a problem, but the fact is I, as one the players, would like more participation from the others.

We stopped at a fairly open situation, so I have plenty of room to maneuver from here. The most active player (as in, moving the story along) is not the slave, who just agonizes over his choices but always follows the path of least resistance, but, surprisingly, the elf, who, by design, should have very little stakes in the outcome.  How do I get the players to move the story along? Should I ease off the pressure and see if they can come up with something? Or should I intensify the pressure (my natural inclination) and throw more tough choices at them and see if one them gets them excited?

[Ronny Hedin]

The obvious question--what are their Keys, and why aren't they taking a more of an active hand in pursuing them? (Are they aware that they are free and encouraged to do so?)

[Thierry Michel]

The obvious question--what are their Keys, and why aren't they taking a more of an active hand in pursuing them? (Are they aware that they are free and encouraged to do so?)

For the ratkin, it is the key of the Precious,, key of  Conscience for the slave and key of the Self for the elf. They are aware becasue I insisted on it, but it is possible that it slipped their minds. In a one-shot, acquiring experience is not seen as terribly important anyway.

[Thierry Michel]

The obvious question--what are their Keys, and why aren't they taking a more of an active hand in pursuing them? (Are they aware that they are free and encouraged to do so?)

For the ratkin, it is the key of the Precious, key of the Pacifist for the slave and key of the Self for the elf. They are aware becasue I insisted on it, but it is possible that it slipped their minds. In a one-shot, acquiring experience is not seen as terribly important anyway.

[Thierry Michel]

Sorry for the double post, meant to edit the previous one (didn't remember editing was off). The slave has the key of the Pacifist, not Conscience.

[Eero Tuovinen]

We stopped at a fairly open situation, so I have plenty of room to maneuver from here. The most active player (as in, moving the story along) is not the slave, who just agonizes over his choices but always follows the path of least resistance, but, surprisingly, the elf, who, by design, should have very little stakes in the outcome.  How do I get the players to move the story along? Should I ease off the pressure and see if they can come up with something? Or should I intensify the pressure (my natural inclination) and throw more tough choices at them and see if one them gets them excited?

Pile on the pressure, but also make sure that you as a fellow player invest two ounces in the fiction for every ounce of escalation. By which I mean, the harder you push, the harder you cringe. The natural inclination for a roleplayer, when confronted with potential emotional investment, is to distance himself from it by one of various means (myguyism, disruptive play, whatever). You as a fellow player should set the example by taking the situations and choices you set up very seriously: comment on the choices of other players, speculate on the consequences and in general, give out social signals that make it clear that you expect firm answers. Traditional GM neutrality often becomes GM indifference; your job is to combat this expectation with your behavior.

Also, note that passivity is a fine choice for a character to make. If the player of the slave opts for passivity despite consequences, that's a strong statement in itself. Just take the scenario to its logical conclusion and make it clear (via NPCs) that his character is partially at fault for the dismal outcome, as he refused to step up to right the wrongs. That's theme, as will be the journey to redemption, or whatever other course the player chooses. In this case the story only really begins after you have gone through your planned atrocities. The only problem is if the player doesn't care about being responsible; in that case he's not invested in the scenario, which may be because of many reasons. If you yourself invest, however, then it's not your fault that he's not buying it.

Keys: give out lots of rewards, especially in a one-shot. Suggest powerful and significant ways of using the earned Advances. Readily suggest buyoffs for anybody acting or thinking about acting against a Key. Leverage the buyoff experience into something awesome, so as to make it clear to the players how the game is played. Praise anybody who gains experience.

[Jasper Flick]

I have another question: what about the players?

I get the feeling they're just there to watch your show and you are bummed about that. What's their play history? Did you talk about how to play the game beforehand?

How do I get the players to move the story along?

Let's pretend I'm one of your players. Let's suppose I'm used to the GM telling his story and me basically being along for the ride. How do I make sure the story moves along? By introducing no distractions, by doing my best to figure out what the GM needs me to do, and by making sure my character survives so he can play his designated part in the future. I walk the path of least resistance. I'm no more involved than watching a show on TV; I like it but in a passive way.
Throwing tougher choices at me won't change my behavior. It will likely frustrate me because it becomes harder and harder to figure out what the GM wants. Now the elf's got it easy, because he's a wildcard who obviously has little importance for the story, so he doesn't need to wory about continuity so much. The story'll work no matter what he does.

Does this in any way ring a bell? If so I think saying "Guys, there's no predefined story, I need your help make one" is a good start for a nice discussion.

[Thierry Michel]

Readily suggest buyoffs for anybody acting or thinking about acting against a Key. Leverage the buyoff experience into something awesome, so as to make it clear to the players how the game is played.

Good point, I might just do that with the elf, for instance, who is actually pretty altruistic despite having taken the key of the self. Since he's the most active player, he might actually do something with the new stuff he'll buy with his XPs.

[Ronny Hedin]

Does this in any way ring a bell? If so I think saying "Guys, there's no predefined story, I need your help make one" is a good start for a nice discussion.

And, if my own experience is anything to go by--say it. Then say it again next time. And be prepared for the players not really believing it--not in the hearts / subconscious--until they've actually seen it happen. "Guys, there's no 'adventure' to follow." "Yeah, sure, he's saying that, but every railroader claims they aren't railroading..."

That said--I totally back up what Eero said (naturally, him being a much cleverer fellow than me). Even in a single session you can easily earn a couple of advances (certainly more if you really try), which is all you need to pick up that decisive secret or skillup that totally makes a difference at the right dramatic moment. Remember, in this game, the experience system works--and needs to work--moment-by-moment, not in an evaluating-after-the-session fashion.

So, I was surprised to see the players only having taken their single free Key, and that might also be contributing to some degree. I guess this comes from the (misplaced) expectation that experience wouldn't be a big thing in one-shot? Again, the first leap is huge--once you've witnessed an advance-spending transform a scene, or a dramatic buyoff, or what have you, you generally want in on that action... (Getting that first leap made, may as suggested require some poking and prodding and suggesting.)

[Thierry Michel]

Does this in any way ring a bell?

Absolutely. I insisted on how I had no pre-planned story, showing them my blank notepad before starting, but I get the feeling that the slave character's player feels a bit like a deer in the headlights, searching for the "good" solution and getting stuck. He doesn't seem "empowered" by his ability to make choices, but rather embarrassed by it.

The ratkinplayer is pretty new to roleplaying, she enjoys playing her character to the hilt and doing rat-like things so I tried to gave her opportunities to do ranger stuff, like finding plants, saving her companions from a bog, erasing their tracks etc. and she seems contented with that. The elf and slave players are traditional roleplayers, so they have plenty of experience, but with fairly linear adventures.

[Jasper Flick]

Remember, in this game, the experience system works--and needs to work--moment-by-moment, not in an evaluating-after-the-session fashion.

I think that's a vital point, especially because I actually know nothing about TSOY, and I can see someone with a D&D mindset totally ignoring it!

Wow, this topic is hot at the moment...

He doesn't seem "empowered" by his ability to make choices, but rather embarrassed by it.

Very familiar, like being afraid of new responsibilities, or being paralyzed by an abundance of choices. I'm with Eero to make things dramatic, but start easy with this guy.

[Judd]

They are aware becasue I insisted on it, but it is possible that it slipped their minds. In a one-shot, acquiring experience is not seen as terribly important anyway.

It is really important; its the fuel the game runs on.

Can you name osme times they got some XP or better yet, some times they spent some XP and got a cool new power?

I ran a one-shot at a con of a TSoY based game and the XP was flying around furiously as people cashed out keys, bought new Secrets, etc.  It is important that that's happening.

Another question, did anyone hand each other some Bonus Dice?

The bang which was supposed to set up things in motion...

Who came up with this bang with the soldiers and the plantation?

I was a bit disappointed with my performance as a GM, since the players were pretty passive, and I had to be very forceful to get them moving (for instance: the soldiers announcing they will crucify one slave for each day they have to spend here).

Their passivity isn't your responsibility.  There are techniques you can use in hopes of getting them moving but it isn't your job to supply The Fun but I hear ya and have felt the exact same thing.

When the soldiers made that announcement, what was the player reaction?  I don't even mean character but I mean player.

Thanks for sharing this account.

[Thierry Michel]

Who came up with this bang with the soldiers and the plantation?

It was me, to start the game. I started by describing the column of soldiers moving throught he swamp, to offer the ratkin opportunities to spy and steal, then crossing the path of a slave gang to get the slave player the opportunity to assess and react to the new situation and finally reporting to the master and his elf guest. Simple, but it worked to plant the setting.

When the soldiers made that announcement, what was the player reaction?  I don't even mean character but I mean player.

Pretty bummed, as I described the slaves turning towards his character for guidance (he set it up as a kind of secret priest). It was something like "oh shit, what do I do now?" He was at loss, but he came up with the idea of delivering a speech apparently preaching cooperation, but in reality slipping hints that he was planning something (using his clandestiniy skill to avoid the subersive hints to be understood by the masters and wardens). It was his big scene of the evening, incidentally.

[Judd]

They know that they can spend XP to get kewl new powers and that they can cash out a Key whenever they like for a new one?

[Thierry Michel]

They know that they can spend XP to get kewl new powers and that they can cash out a Key whenever they like for a new one?

They know it in theory, but don't really realize it in practice, I think. I avoided pointing out the situations where "had you done that, you would have an XP", but maybe I should to get them starting.