[DiTV] Trait pile-on - how many traits can you use, and when do you roll?

[phargle]

I've been thinking about the problem of trait pile-on in our game.  In verbal encounters, we squeezed in every trait we could, even if it was only remotely related to talking.  Sometimes, we'd use several traits per round.  Is that allowed, or is there a limit on how many traits you can invoke?  It seems the limit is determined by the skepticism of your fellow players, but I am not sure.

Second, it looks like you have to describe your See or Raise before you roll any dice for traits that might be brought into play.  Does this mean, when it's your turn to See someone's Raise and you don't have enough dice to avoid Taking the Blow, you have to Take the Blow even if you manage to roll dice good enough to Block or Reverse it after describing your See?

Thanks!

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Non-Vincent answers:

Is that allowed, or is there a limit on how many traits you can invoke?  It seems the limit is determined by the skepticism of your fellow players, but I am not sure.

There's no limit to the number of traits you can bring in on a See or Raise. If there's a problem with people using traits in unconvincing ways, it's up to the group to start policing that behaviour. The book suggests that the group follow the judgement of the pickiest player -- so it only takes one person starting to call 'lame'.

Second, it looks like you have to describe your See or Raise before you roll any dice for traits that might be brought into play.  Does this mean, when it's your turn to See someone's Raise and you don't have enough dice to avoid Taking the Blow, you have to Take the Blow even if you manage to roll dice good enough to Block or Reverse it after describing your See?

The order goes like this:

1. Describe the See or Raise.
2. Roll dice for any new Traits you are bringing in, as appropriate to your description.
3. Choose which dice to put forward for the actual See or Raise.

So to answer the second part of the question, no -- the game is specifically designed so that you can bring in a Trait 'at the last minute' to avoid Taking the Blow or to make a stronger Raise, just like you describe. The reason you describe first is because the description is what justifies bringing in those additional Traits.

[lumpley]

Daniel's right.

Also, and this is important but difficult to explain, to get a trait's dice, you have to bring the trait concretely into your raise or see. Explaining how the trait would help your character isn't enough.

Tell me some example multi-trait raises or sees from your game and I'll see if I can show you the difference.

-Vincent

[phargle]

Tell me some example multi-trait raises or sees from your game and I'll see if I can show you the difference.

A good example is when we're low on dice and have to Take the Blow, so we look at our traits.  In my own case, I'd say, "Hmm, I've got a bad temper.  (roll)  Not enough, well I'm snide and condescending.  (roll)  Well, not enough yet.  I'm a Dog.  (roll)  Sweet, I don't have to take the blow.  (puts forward two dice)  'I sneer at the guy and lay into him, demanding that he respect my authority as a Dog or get the hell out of my way.'"

So basically, we'd roll dice on traits 'til we had enough to save our butts and then we'd describe our Raises.  This is slightly unsatisfying, but I am unsure of how the rules should work.  If you describe your See before rolling dice, you might have some weird situations:

GM:  The guy clobbers you. (puts forward two dice)
Me:  Man, that sucks.  I don't have enough dice to stop that.  He sends me sprawling, I guess.  But I do have that 2d8 acrobatic trait, so. . . I tumble out of the way!  (rolls)  Damn, still not enough. 

At that point, do I have to redescribe my See to be Taking the Blow instead of Dodging?  That's what I'm getting at here, and that's where my confusion lies.

[lumpley]

You don't have to redescribe when that happens, you just have to keep describing. "I tumble out of the way ... crap ... but I crack my head on the doorframe sure as if you'd punched me out."

It's not a rule that you can bring in only one trait's dice per raise or see, but it's a good guideline. Generally speaking, one trait's worth is the right size for a raise or see.

-Vincent

[phargle]

Thank you.   That clarifies things nicely on both points.