games as art

[lincolnstoller]

Oh dear, so much to say, so many voices... Here's the "skinny":

I want to approach games as art, forget the commerce, the play, the money, just focus on creating games as art. "But what's art?" I hear you ask. Indeed, it could be anything, but for me it means communication of ideas, and the transformation of self. In particular -- needing something to hang my hat on -- how about the role of games in helping adolescents find hope in a difficult world. That sounds pretty insipid, I suppose, but I'm serious. Today's adolescents are getting a very raw deal, they have about as much to look forward to as Ishmael did on the Pequod. Some of us may feel we can poke a hole through societies veil of illusion, can we do it through games?

By way of introduction: this is my first post here. I've been designing board games for a couple of years, and doing the circuit at Origins, GenCon and, this year, GAMA. Not much interest there in games as art! But I was directed here, to The Forge, and I'm wondering who will answer if I knock on this door. I'd love to hear your ideas.

[C.W.Richeson]

I'm concerned that capacity to help adolescents will be very difficult to measure and, because of that, it would be difficult to determine whether a given game meets that definition of 'art.'

[slavemind]

Welcome to the forge!

RPGs are about having fun through "communication of ideas". So playing Rpgs could be a form of art. (Especially when "real" acting is part of it...)

Doing RPG-Design takes a lot of patience, reflection, humor and a kind of self-transformation and self-cognition, for example saying what I want the system to work like and going new ways to accomplish. If it is not an art - it is to the least a cool self-therapy...

Furthermore I think it is a basic need for everyone to play - and doing so should be enlivening.

[matthijs]

Games can, without a doubt, be objects of art, or help provide experiences of art.

You ask: "Some of us may feel we can poke a hole through societies veil of illusion, can we do it through games?"

Oh yes, I'm quite certain you can. However, what specific veil or illusion are you talking about? And is there a specific reality you want to show the players? In short, what sort of game are you thinking of?

[Ron Edwards]

The neat thing is that you don't have to convince anyone of the artsiness or Art-ness of role-playing or games in general. Not at this site. It's actually not much of a question, in the sense of that whatever anyone says about it can play literally no role in whatever it is you actually want to do.

So! What do you want to do? What sort of game do you have in mind?

Best, Ron

[lincolnstoller]

You ask: "Some of us may feel we can poke a hole through societies veil of illusion, can we do it through games?"

Oh yes, I'm quite certain you can. However, what specific veil or illusion are you talking about? And is there a specific reality you want to show the players? In short, what sort of game are you thinking of?

There are different transformations pending for people at different stages of their lives. There are a few for adolescents, and a few for adults. The two that I'm most involved with are:

1) the adolescent transition into a state of confidence in ones ability to see a worthwhile goal for oneself (personal, moral, professional, educational, emotional) and acquire (don't ask from where!) the ability to pursue it. You might call this "piercing the veil of dependence".

2) the adult transition from seeing oneself as socially defined person (a professional, a parent, a breadwinner, an artist) to understanding a greater sense of self beyond how one's viewed by others. That is a dissolution of ones ego and the emergence of what comes next (you name it), this being the traditional object of worship, meditation, service, and personal crisis (as in when one has "had enough" of the world as one knows it). Call this "piercing the veil of the ego".

This may sound grandiose, but I'm just talking about two of the most normal processes that confront people. Everyone hits the first veil and most find something larger beyond it, that is to say that most find some kind of self-confidence. The second transition is pretty widely sensed, but many people can't afford to take the risk of exploring it. Nevertheless it's always a hot topic, in one form or another.

These transitions present two possible topics that one could constructively explore a game. And by "explore" I mean something serious, not just a "shoots and ladders" game with a meditation theme. (Actually there IS such a game titled "Leela: the Game of Self-Knowledge" written by Harish Johari, Destiny Books, 1993, for just this purpose!)

There are lots of ways of exploring these "veils." One can simply help frame the issue, one doesn't need to fully paint the world on the other side (of the veil, that is).

Games already approach these issues, but obliquely. Hell, everything we do touches on these issues! In particular we've got games that help develop social clusters (by the very act of gaming). We've got games that toy with issues on the dark side (a big part of my transition #2). I have yet to see one that goes very far, but I know they're out there somewhere.

I think we can do more, I think we can make games that present some kind of thesis, some kind of solution, and which do it in a way that is involving, specific, and demonstrative. The real problem that I see is making the game real so that a person must adopt some change in perception in order to complete the game.

Sorry, this is all very vague. Maybe you've got to already know what I mean in order to make any sense of this. Let me put it this way: if a photograph of a crying man in a war zone holding the broken body of his child (as recently appeared on the cover of the Financial Times) can move a person to break out of their own small world and consider new views about what's important, then why can't games be designed that have the same effect?

[NOTE: wrt to the question of what kind of game I have in mind, I'll post that separately.]

[David C]

First of all, I just saw this on the Escapist. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/94/11  I'll quote.

He sidled up to me in Biology.
"You got the Bard's Tale, yeah?"
"Yeah."
"Tape me one?"
"Sure."

Been friends ever since.

A few years later, he was hit with crushing teenage depression. Unknowingly, in my default, charmless, buffoonish way, I helped him through it; that copy of Bard's Tale gave him something to focus on other than his adolescent problems. Now, he says - in a matter of fact way, which still chills me with its casual resignation whenever I recall it - that he'd be dead today if it wasn't for me.

Secondly, I have to say that video games were always good for me to fall back on when I was trying to get through prison... err, public education. In fact, every single friend of mine I'm friend with because one or the other mentioned a game (like fallout or D&D) and we just had to see it for ourselves. The above quote could be applied in a very real way to me. I am 21, btw.

I think the issue is convincing the world at large, that games are art. For example, the video game Psychonauts takes a very serious look at things like mental disorders, relationships and government. However, most people would immediately write it off as a "kids toy." I'm sure in a few generations, this will be the norm, but not now. Can games be as evocative as other media? Definately. One of my players will become very seriously concerned about an NPC's well being, to the point of endangering their pc or their pc's wealth. Most people I know have teared up over a video game character's death. I know CRPGs and P&P RPGs are different, but not that different.