Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Clyde L. Rhoer, May 14, 2007, 08:50:29 AM
Quote from: Mick Bradley... you're asking about how the WW system fails to support Story Now, or in some sense, maybe you're asking what WW does to actually HINDER it - well, I don't think it does. But it also doesn't do anything in-game to promote or reward it, and I think that's the point. The flavor text and the fiction in the books are all about story, but the mechanics are story-neutral. They do not reward it in-play, unless you count getting XP for "good roleplaying" but that in my opinion is not quite the same thing. My point is, there is no mechanics resource that a player can use to affect the story directly, except actual roleplay, and frankly, that might affect the story VERY deeply with some Storytellers and groups, but it might amount to banging your head against a wall with other Storytellers/groups. The power to affect story is in the players hands only if the Storyteller allows it to be - and if and when the Storyteller allows it to be, it has nothing to do with the game system and everything to do with the personality and whim of the Storyteller. And in that sense, it's not real power, because it can be taken away or applied unevenly at a whim.
Quote from: Mick BradleyWe all wonder, 'why are you [story-game proponents] so pissed at systems like White Wolf? They inspire rich story in their setting and flavor text, and the rules are simple enough to get out of our way and let us tell our story." And it becomes a badge of honor to say, "there are lots of times we don't even ever roll dice, all night long!"Hey, I've been that guy and part of me still is. But the thing is, what I think The Forge and Ron and so many others who've been growing the story games movement over the past seven years, what they're saying is, "If you have to get your system out of the way in order to go into story mode, then you need a new system that actually can be used IN story mode."
QuoteAnd just like that, and coupled with Matt's post above, I realize how, yes I was having fun, but the system had nothing to do with it, because at the end of the day, we really were throwing it aside; it wasn't doing anything special for us, even if it didn't actually hinder us directly.
Quote from: Wolfen on June 03, 2007, 12:22:29 AMFrom someone who's been on the other side of the fence, this realization is sometimes painful, but it's necessary to really start getting everything you want out of gaming. [...]My preferences are evolving, and I'm not sure White Wolf would meet my needs any longer. But realizing the effect that mechanics have on the play has allowed me to find, and fully enter the process of designing, games that meet my needs. I am now finally, after years of bitterness, learning to play D&D and enjoy it for what it does well.
Quote from: Wolfen on June 03, 2007, 12:22:29 AMIt's funny how it seems that these journeys of realization often begin with arriving here at the Forge, and deciding that we need to prove Ron Edwards wrong...
Quote from: Ron Edwards on June 02, 2007, 11:29:29 PMDid we all just get into the huggy "I love you man" phase of the tequila party? I think we did!