The Ashcan Front

[Ron Edwards]

Hi everyone,

The Ashcan Front project debuted at GenCon 2007 to great acclaim. Now, however, the buzz will diminish and it will be time to get to work.

Rather than split our efforts and confuse things with discussions at multiple sites, I suggest that people who are playtesting Ashcan Front games use their forums at their website. I will be sad not to read these discussions here, but I will be happy to read them there!

The link: The Ashcan Front website. Create an account and post, post, post.

Best, Ron
edited much later to remove sticky - RE

[TwoCrows]

Hi Ron,

I was wondering if this is a relatively new decision, and how you feel it may reflect on such directions for interface as may well be currently published in this year's round of Ashcans themselves?

As an example from one Ashcan I have committed to playtest, and admittedly I've not read each one of them...yet:

"Play Acts of Evil, and let it try to destroy you. I need to know if it does, if it can, and how. Post online at the Acts of Evil forum at the Ashcan Front (www.ashcanfront.net), The Forge (www.indie-rpgs.com), Story Games (www.story-games.com), or wherever you like and shoot me an email (paul@halfmeme.com).
– Czege, Paul. Acts of Evil. Half Meme Press, 2007. XXXI Stick A Fork In It, pg. 81, paragraph 2.

While I think I grok the rational for your directive, I need a little clarification.

Are you directing ALL Ashcan-related posts to their respective cubbyholes on the Ashcan Front Forums?

Would this include potential Ashcan-related Actual Play posts, and/or posts that might typically be directed to a Designer's sub-forums here at The Forge?

Would it also include new posts containing material related to Ashcans for which the Designer has previously posted here on The Forge, eg. Jason Walters' You Brought This On Yourself?

Regards, Brad

[Eero Tuovinen]

I'd imagine Ron is just making a suggestion, not setting a rule. It makes sense to focus the social connections and material related to those ashcans at the Ashcan Front forums because that way the effort is not split and all interested parties can communicate efficiently. As communication begets communication, it also improves the Ashcan Front's chances of fulfilling it's goals.

But if you have some reason to discuss the ashcans here, I can't imagine why you couldn't.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Things are mutable in the world of mutualistic indie publishing. What I've posted has been double-checked with Paul. It's better to give direct ashcan feedback at the forums on that website, for all the reasons Eero listed. If you want to help out most effectively with the Ashcan Front project, post about those games at that site.

I would prefer them not to be posted here, especially not mirrors (duplicate starting-thread posts). Much as I would be proud to host Ashcan Front posting, and much as it would help out the Forge community, it's better for the Ashcan Front guys not to have to trot all over the place wondering who said what. Centralization is a good thing for projects of this kind.

Brad, your question about Actual Play posting is confusing, because threads about playtesting ashcans shouldn't go into that forum anyway. Ordinarily, they'd go here.

To be absolutely clear, my directive in this thread concerns the titles that were offered at the Ashcan Front booth at GenCon this year. Other projects that can accurately be called "ashcans" based on their physical nature and publishing status are not included in that directive.

As for any posting in any publisher's independent forum here at the Forge, like Halfmeme Press, I have zero moderator power in those forums and any such decisions will have to be made by the moderator, no one else.

Best, Ron

[TwoCrows]

I have no doubt that attempting to beat around the bush on my part is the entry point for the confusion in this issue. Without doubt it also tends to portray my grasp of the work as less firm than it may actually be.

I do not in any way question your choice to re-direct Ashcan feedback to the Ashcan Front Forums. It's in your job description to make such decisions, and this one in particular only makes practical sense, as I am certain we all agree.

As directly as I can ask:
1) Are we certain that other Ashcan Front Designers haven't also included instructions in their 07 Ashcans to direct at least some of their desired feedback to The Forge?

2) Taking your re-direct, and an instance where at least one 07 Ashcan Designer offered The Forge Forums as a venue for feedback, might it be proactive to A) check to see if others may have done the same, and B) make efforts to insure that Designers of 08 Ashcans don't contribute to generating the same issue next year?

3) The clarification that I really wanted was this – Will any mention of an Ashcan in any context, in any of your Forums garner the meaty hand of moderation?

Regards, Brad

[Ron Edwards]

Sigh ... look, Paul put that text into Acts of Evil before it was entirely clear what the Ashcan Front forums would be used for. I suggest getting over the apparent contradiction and just accept that before, it seemed reasonable to discuss the games here, and now, it seems more reasonable not to. iI checked with Paul before posting this sticky.

Your posts seem uneasy about what seems a contradiction to you. However, the two things are not simultaneous in time. The book might direct you here. But here, it says "go over there." That is all right, it reflects the organic and evolving nature of the Ashcan Front as a project.

The same goes for any of the other Ashcan Front books. They might say "give feedback at the Forge," and that is nice and communal and everything, good for them. So when you come here from the book, it's just as if you found a new construction sign saying, "actually, do this over at the Ashcan Front, and here's a cookie to eat for being part of this whole thing."

I know you aren't challenging me, but I urge you to let it cease bothering you at a conceptual level.

As for your question about moderation, if a playtest thread does happen to show up here, I'll nicely direct the person over to the Ashcan Front forums and give them a cookie too. If anything else about the Ashcan Front shows up here, say as a point of comparison to discussing another game, or maybe as a publishing topic or whatever, then that's acceptable and fine.

Best, Ron