[Bliss Stage] Teenagers?

[JC]

hi

I haven't bought the game yet, so maybe this is a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway...

how important to the game is it that characters be teenagers?

I mean, I understand that that is how the setting is set up, and I'm not saying it's not cool that way

I also understand that Ben, you are not interested in developping alternate settings

I'm just wondering if I'd mess up the game if I tweaked the setting so that most people (as opposed to all adults) fell asleep seven years ago, and a few people (as opposed to all kids) stayed awake

just in case I feel like playing adults

for instance, I don't think that pilots being adults would keep an Authority Figure from existing

any thoughts?


PS: it's probably not in-genre, but what I've read about Bliss Stage made me think about Dark Heavens (by Roger Levy)

[JC]

PS: it's probably not in-genre, but what I've read about Bliss Stage made me think about Dark Heavens (by Roger Levy)

::slaps forehead::

sorry, I meant Reckless Sleep (by Roger Levy)

[Ben Lehman]

I would say pretty important.

The game is about teenagers, and relationships. If you take out the teenagers, and replace them with adults, you're probably going to have a bunch of adults acting like teenagers, which is (at least for me) going to kill dead any sympathy I have for them.

Why do you want to change it?

yrs--
--Ben

[JC]

first off, let me clarify again that I'm not slamming the game for being about teenagers

I'm just trying to see what's purely color (I hope I'm using that term right) and what's necessary for the game to function as intended

to draw a parallel, I'd say DITV as written has characters be teens, but functions perfectly with adult PCs

my deeper reason is that I prefer serious games, and I'm afraid the people I play with will turn the "teenagers" aspect into a caricature

I'm not sure I'm expressing my concern clearly...

"this is a game about apocalypse-survivors fighting aliens with giant robots fueled by their relationships"
and
"this is a game about apocalypse-surviving teenagers fighting aliens with giant robots fueled by their relationships"
would just not prompt the same kind of roleplaying/storytelling on their part

so, to try and be more specific, when you say the game is about teenagers and their relationships, do you mean to say it's about the type of relationships only teenagers would have?

is it because it's about discovering sexuality?

could the progression in intimacy not be something adults go through?

or is that what you refer to when you say you'd lose sympathy for them?

as I said, I haven't read the game yet, so I may be waaaay off

if you tell me to go read the game before getting into this kind of stuff, I'll totally understand

[Ben Lehman]

Hmm...

Every group of teenagers goes through a time (sometimes extending into the mid-20s) where they have to figure out what's up with sex, love, courtship, friendship, and so on and so forth. They're not yet an adult social circle: this stuff is still very new and very raw. There's a lot of mistakes and bruised feelings and feuds and intensity that just isn't present amongst adults.

The game's about that, plus a stressful situation, in this case a war.

If you were to play the game with adult characters, they would end up being very immature adult characters, I think, because they'd be acting like teenagers. Does that make sense?

[JC]

thanks for the quick reply again

and yeah, sure, that makes sense

I guess it all boils down to:

(a) do I think adults have potential for raw emotional discoveries, as far as relationships are concerned, and

(b) do I find "immature" adults interesting (or as interesting as teens)

but you've answered my question

thanks for helping me wrap my head around this


by the way, I've only watched a couple of mecha flicks

are the pilots/crew usually teens?

or is this something you specifically worked into this game?

(sorry if that's an obvious question again)

[Ben Lehman]

The answer is "yes" to both.

I'm attracted to the giant robot genre because it speaks to certain issues, stemming from adolescence, that I find deeply compelling. So that's why I was attracted to the genre, and decided to write a game about it (after being a fan of it for years.)

Bliss Stage isn't "I'm going to take the trappings of giant robot anime and write a game about adolescent romance, friendship, and power with it." The issues of adolescent romance, friendship, and power are totally tied up in the genre. The goal of Bliss Stage is to create, as a game, an item of media which is a member of this genre. It's not "you can play a giant robot show with this game" it's "this game is a giant robot show, here, for you to play" if that distinction makes any sense.

I submit that, with that creative goal, it would be impossible to write a game which didn't directly address these issues.

If you're interested in how other media have handled these issues via adult protagonists, I'd urge you to check out Macross Plus (the OAV series or the movie: they're basically the same except the pacing is slightly different.) Not only is it the best giant robot anime ever produced, it will be a guiding light for running Bliss Stage with adult characters. Note the heavy use of reminiscences and flashbacks to the characters' teenage years.

yrs--
--Ben

[JC]

thanks a lot for that detailed answer

I'll watch Macross Plus, and maybe come back to this issue afterwards

[JC]

OK, I\\\'ve watched the 4 episodes of Macross Plus

(to anyone else reading: this post is spoiler-free)

I\\\'m not sure what to think

on the one hand, the adult protagonists act \\\"like teens\\\" (irresponsible, jealous, depressed...)

on the other hand, it seems to me plenty of adults act like that (immature, if you like)

and I don\\\'t think their behaviour makes them any less sympathetic (but that\\\'s totally subjective, of course)

a couple of other points :
- they\\\'re all single, but they\\\'re sexual tension all over the place
- they have a past, but it\\\'s nothing a teenager couldn\\\'t have
- the base\\\'s Colonel seems like an Authority Figure to me

so... I\\\'m not sure what my point is

I guess this tends to show that Bliss Stage with adults is fine, as long as you don\\\'t mind the game highlighting \\\"adolescent\\\" behaviour

you pointed me towards Macross Plus, so I don\\\'t think you disagree

I guess I\\\'m just thinking out loud

[Eero Tuovinen]

Being an adult is certainly not high on the priority list of many folks nowadays. Even less so for characters from a children's TV show.

[Nev the Deranged]

As a sort of side note, I noticed long ago that television shows about teenagers generally feature them acting an adult capacity, making crucial decisions for themselves, facing dangerous situations, dealing with adult problems; whereas most shows about adults feature them acting like teenagers- being rebellious, petty, fickle, jealous, spiteful, and clueless.

I'm not sure exactly what that means.

Part of what I think Ben already alluded to is that the giant robot genre, similar to the superhero genre, is about putting teenagers, who often have issues of powerlessness and irresponsibility in their normal lives, into situations where they have immeasurable power,  as well as crushing responsibility. It's all metaphorical and stuff.

Ok, I'm done.

[Ben Lehman]

Hey, JC:

Did you notice that:
1) The primary changes to the relationships (i.e. the interlude scenes) were largely played out in recollection or flashback to adolescence?
2) The characters universally were hung up on some core event in their adolescence.

yrs--
--Ben

[JC]

Did you notice that:
1) The primary changes to the relationships (i.e. the interlude scenes) were largely played out in recollection or flashback to adolescence?
2) The characters universally were hung up on some core event in their adolescence.

absolutely

(you've just watched the show again, haven't you, Ben ? )

you know, I just realized something

if you change the setting and have random people (including adults) be the survivors, these people would pretty much be in the situation teenagers are in: single, having to get to know and live with strangers, maybe trust them and maybe not, and being under the guidance of an Authority Figure

thoughts?

PS: if I may ask, what's the status with Acceleration Stage?