Games and Amazon

[TwoCrows]

Forgites,

What sorts of experiences have people had selling their games via Amazon.com?

Regards, Brad

[Jake Richmond]

I asked this about a year ago, and the answer I got was none. No one seemed to be doing it. I don't know if that has changed or not. I consulted with both IPR and Key20, and the resonse I got from both was "give it a try and tell us how it goes". Ugh.  I'm in the middle of getting my books on Amazon. So far the process has been painless.I'll share my experiences after the book is up and we start to see sales (if there are sales to be had).

It seems like Amazon should be a perfect sales outlet for our games. Matt and I have desperately wanted our games on their since day one, but a year later we're just getting around to it.

jake

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Jake, can you outline the process? There're six-plus years of lame cop-out behind this: I have this silly notion that getting one's title onto Amazon must be hard, or must require some inconvenient bar. Even if it's simple, explain it to me so I can get over this self-imposed hurdle. I mean, I know it can't be that hard, or no one would do it ...

Let's start with the assumption that one has a valid ISBN, and take it from there.

As far as RPGs are concerned, I know that the Apophis Consortium used Amazon to its advantage back in 2000, with the release of their game Obsidian. Characteristically, Dav Harnish gamed the system pretty well, in some way he explained to me that I don't remember clearly.

If anyone has any information about using the site, please let the rest of us know. As you can tell from this post, I'm feeling sort of non-entrepeneurial and pathetic about having dodged it for so long.

Best, Ron

P.S. Why I'm sharing feelings today, I do not know. I assume I will get better soon.

[Jake Richmond]

Well...

Part of the reason I haven't done this sooner is that getting books on Amazon seems to be very, very difficult. My impression is that Amazon was designed for book sellers and not publishers, so the easier way to do it is to find a book seller (a book store) that is willing to list you book. The hard way is to become a (I'm going to use the wrong word here) vendor yourself. Doing so requires you to have an ISBN number, but it also requires several other steps that I can't clearly remember at the moment. It's been 6 months since I looked into it, and at the time I found it confusing.

In any case, I'm taking a different approach. Amazon has just launched a POD/fulfillment/sales service similar too Lulu with comparable pricing. the difference is that your book is automatically listed through Amazon and made available to order. You can use a pre-existing ISBN, although if you don't have one they provide one at no additional cost. I'm currently experimenting with this system. I expect to have a proof copy of Panty Explosion from them within a week. If that looks good then I'll go ahead and list and see what happens.

I am interested in cracking Amazon in a more traditional way for a number of reasons, but at the moment I just don't have the time or energy.

Jake

[TwoCrows]

Jake,

If you already know this, my apologies:

As I understand the ISBN process the purchaser of a block of numbers is the publisher of record, regardless of what press label is affixed to the book, due to the ISO standards concerning the assignment of publisher prefixes as noted here under Who can assign ISBNs to a publisher?.

As I aim to be the publisher of record for my own works, this point matters to me.

Regards, Brad

[TwoCrows]

Ron,

It seems that perhaps at least one part of the process isn't so hard for your games at all. You already have listings in their catalog under the Marketplace, their used book sales setup. One re-seller is charging $29.95 for Sorcerer. Check it out here.

You might want to check into how to update the product information page as it's pretty slim.

Maybe some lucky Forgite could also be the first to write a review of the Sorcerer products listed on Amazon...nudge, nudge, wink, wink...

Regards, Brad

[guildofblades]

My experiences with Amazon.

Back in the day when Amazon was still young and getting started, they rolled out the "Advantage" program. This was a program where independent book publishers could send them stock, on consignment, which Amazon would sell and then periodically cut you a check for your commissions. There were, however, just a few things I did not like about the program. Their discount we had to give them was 55%, which seemed steep since the product sat there on consignment. Information was difficult to update on their site and they scanned everything themselves, albeit, very slowly, so we had product on the site for over a year with no cover art, etc. I believe their newer practices along these lines are much better about this. The largest problems we had with their old Advantage program is they would send us restock requests for 1-3 books at a time, which of course, if we shipped in those quantities at their discount, we lost all potential profits in shipping.

More recently we've sought to get updated products into their system. If you have ISBNs and can keep your information up to date through the Bowkerlink system, your stuff will get auto listed into the Amazon system. However, in trying to properly list one title in Bowkerlink, that was a real pain in the rear and that title's updated information never migrated onto Amazon, so we don't know where exactly the info exchange failed.

I know if we want to run an amazon auction z shop or something like that that it also comes with the power to enter products into the amazon system that are not there presently. I'm quite sure we will do this eventually and pay for that shop membership for a couple months merely to get all of our products into their system, then cancel the shop membership. This will get the products into the system and allow them to be sold through the used system, but won't grant amazon any direct distribution options yet.

Lastly, their new POD to distribution option does look viable and I expect we'll list some of our RPG lines through them eventually that way. I figure as long as Amazon isn't holding my product on consignment or wanting me to ship 1-3 titles at wholesale rates, there isn't too much that can go wrong. From my past experience, Amazon can move a respectable number of units, so if you can get product listed with proper information and images without a supply system to them that is inherently faulty, then it is probably worth the effort.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com

[Ken]

I looked into the Amazon POD a while back; its through BookSurge. They were very professional, courteous, and expensive. Expense is not foreign to anyone trying to publish, but they seemed to be pricey for what is essentially a vanity printer. Getting into Amazon's system does seem like a pretty big boon and may be worth the price of playing with them. There is a POD price comparison somewhere in this forum that I believe put them pretty firmly into the more expensive end. I also remember reading a horror story about someone who published through them and didn't get the dough they were owed (I'm that can be found online somewhere).

The other poster had a good idea though; once you are in the system, it should be easy to sell directly through their marketplace as a bookstore (essentially) and fulfill your orders directly, presumably having produced them through a cheaper printer. I have seen a few books however, that are only available through the marketplace (even new), so there may be some options out there for those with an existing ISBN without having to go through BookSurge. Also, there is a feature now where members can add pictures to product listings which takes some of the pressure off of Amazon.

Hope that helps

Ken

[Jake Richmond]

As I understand the ISBN process the purchaser of a block of numbers is the publisher of record, regardless of what press label is affixed to the book, due to the ISO standards concerning the assignment of publisher prefixes as noted here under Who can assign ISBNs to a publisher?.

As I aim to be the publisher of record for my own works, this point matters to me.

If you ave your own ISBN you can use it with the Amazon system. This is what I'm doing.

I looked into the Amazon POD a while back; its through BookSurge.

This is a new POD service that Amazon is offering called Create Space. It may well just be Book Surge by another name. i don't know. But the prices are comparable to Lulu.

[Ken]

This is a new POD service that Amazon is offering called Create Space. It may well just be Book Surge by another name. i don't know. But the prices are comparable to Lulu.

Wow; that looks much cooler than their previous POD offerings. Not a bad price for copies to you, either. I will definitely give them another chance when I'm ready to roll. I seem to remember that Book Surge wanted like $400+ to set up an account, which gave a certain number of books and some other membership stuff (but then you had to sell some books online to make your money back; didn't sound great). Thanks for the info.

Take care,

Ken