Social Mandate: Did you remember to bring your guitar?

[contracycle]

I don't see that trying hard necessarily equates to goals scored or other measurements.  You can see who is throwing themselves into it, giving their all, even if their efforts are ultimately unsuccessful.   If they are simply outmatched, they may play very hard and still not score at all.

[Ron Edwards]

Vincent and I have now agreed that we can't understand what the thread is about. That in itself probably isn't enough for moderation, but it's also clear, now, that there isn't going to be any discussion of actual play here either. Fred heroically posted an example that doesn't seem to be taken up by anyone.

I have also learned that all discussion of "we played for its own sake" vs. "we played to win" is going to end just as Callan wrote - with people making assertions which will merely sit there, indigestible and doing nothing to promote a conclusion.

So. Based on moderator discussion, and with the proviso that the thread may continue if posts reference real and experienced actual role-playing, I'm closing it.

Best, Ron

[Callan S.]

I think Fred's summery

I believe you can have a win/lose situation in any game: Was your character successful?  You win.  Otherwise, you lost.  But did you have fun?  That's where there the successful/unsuccessful play comes in.

references his actual play account thoroughly. And I could see why he thought it was a support, as well. I could see what he was drawing on. I think I was referencing his actual play, moderation doesn't - my traffic cop tells me that's it for the thread. Looking at just what sort of roll it took to channel the electrical power from the other player doesn't engage whether a player would want or not want to use those rules to begin with. Engaging his summery (whilst reflecting on the AP) would, as I see it. I'm not arguing that now, I'm stating it as a wrap up for this thread.

I've also asked my partner whether she would get it if I bet her $5 that she couldn't mow the backyard, or couldn't make dinner. It didn't raise any question marks with her or phase her in the least - she just said yeah, she got the terms of it and she knew she'd get the bucks if she fully completed the task. And I ended up asking her because it just seemed odd how much I was explaining it here - I was begining to doubt myself, due to that. I don't feel any doubt on that front now, so that's essentially choosing to be an argumentative fellow if anyone doesn't agree making dinner can be made into a bet. Another reason to wrap up.

Finally, from what I understand now 'My life with master' has play until you win or give up model (so do seduku, as much as the comparison might grate). It's there, regardless of recognition of it - further AP of it will go on to speak louder than all the technical rubbish I could write.

Final posts and summeries are welcomed.