[Dark Ages Vampire] Assessing Creative Agenda

[Caldis]

To my understanding, Nar/Sim/Gam is a descriptor of your group's basic goal or agenda (Creative AGENDA) to their playing.
The way I've explained this to myself and others is "What wins?"

The problem is if something wins then something else is losing.   You've set up a battlefield where different goals are battling for supremacy and they may tromp all over other priorities to win out.  So while you've expressed interest in creating a community that really engages the player you've alse expressed interest in creating a dangerous setting where smart actions on the part of the players are necessary for their survival.  These two can work together if you make engaging with the community part of the smart actions they can take to survive.  Seeing the community as a source of valuable allies and possilbe enemies where they will have to make smart strategic decisions on who to ally with and who to piss off is viable.  What wont work is trying to get them to engage with the community just to make the world feel more real while they are expecting danger and that whoever they deal with is a possible enemy.

 

[Reithan]

These two can work together if you make engaging with the community part of the smart actions they can take to survive.  Seeing the community as a source of valuable allies and possilbe enemies where they will have to make smart strategic decisions on who to ally with and who to piss off is viable.

Yes, that is mostly what I want.

What wont work is trying to get them to engage with the community just to make the world feel more real while they are expecting danger and that whoever they deal with is a possible enemy.

However, I don't think we should be forced to use only political threats just because of it.

I feel that you can play a good nar game, and still include strategic combat. As long as that strategic combat does not overrun the main focus(ii) of play.

[Caldis]

I feel that you can play a good nar game, and still include strategic combat. As long as that strategic combat does not overrun the main focus(ii) of play.

Exactly, does the strategic focus overrun the main focus of play.  In your scenario it seems to be the case.  The players have moved towards gamism and away from narrativism, whether it's a case of the players actually having more interest in gamism or the players and yourself not being familiar with narrativism and not knowing how to funtionally play together in this manner doesnt matter is not important.  What is important is that you've shifted to gamism because Nar isnt working. 

I'd suggest either shifting your focus to a gamist approach and foregtting nar for the moment or else you have to reduce the strategic element and focus on narrativism so you dont confuse your players.

[Caldis]

Here's a link that probably better explains what I'm getting at and it seems to relate to your situation.  http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=9812.0