[16 Bit] Fundamental Questions

[Evan Anhorn]

Sure thing, I'll see if I can't hammer one out.  It's all just loose notes right now.

[Jarrod]

Sure, shoot me an email; that's the easiest way to get ahold of me. jarrodacquistapace@gmail.com.

[OnnoTasler]

And I'd love to see an actual play, am curious how your idea to keep the group together works out.

[Evan Anhorn]

Ok I finished some semblance of a playtest document and emailed it off.  Is anyone else interested in a copy?

[Paul T]

Trying to recreate a certain style of play, I wrote a "procedure" for a more D&D/dungeon-esque game--a method for a group to play out stories in a certain style.

What you're going for is very different, but you may want to consider what sort of role the GM will play, and how much of the story will be based on their prep and ideas. If you'd like to take a look at my brief article, it may give you some ideas. It definitely wouldn't work for your game as written, however:

http://www.fudgerpg.info/guide/bin/view/Projects/RedBoxAdventure

Cheers,


Paul

[Evan Anhorn]

Thanks for that link, Paul.  It's a great article, and something I'll definitely have to use in Hackmaster sometime soon.  I can also see some similarities between that and the shared storytelling in 16-bit, although 16-bit is probably a little less "spontaneous story generation".  Rather, Cutscenes are the only times where players can create new plot alongside the GM, and even then, the new plot would have to be relevant to the demands of other recent story developments.  Because the players generally create plot through roleplaying other player's characters in a Cutscene, hopefully the emphasis will be on enhancing the story line rather than enhancing one's own goals (I know that sounds paranoid, but I've played traditional RPGs too long to not know something about players).

[Nathan W]

Ok I finished some semblance of a playtest document and emailed it off.  Is anyone else interested in a copy?

I'd love to take a look at it and tell you what I think.
nswesquire@yahoo.com

[Nathan W]

Hey, sorry it's taken me so long to read your document. I enjoyed the information, but it is way too little for me to run a play test off of. I especially liked your Light Points and Dark Points and the various ways in which they can be used. I'd love to actually play test it when you've gotten more finished.

[Evan Anhorn]

I am just polishing up a list of 16 professions with abilities for (profession) levels 1-4, 192 abilities in total.  After I tweak it a little more for balance, I'll update the playtest doc and distribute it to anyone who wants to take a look.

[Evan Anhorn]

Make that over 250 abilities for 21 professions.  Slow day here at work : P

[Evan Anhorn]

OK, new revised playtest document is finished, if you want it just post here or PM me!  New stuff includes:

Boss Battles
New Experience and Advancement system
New Initiative system
New Profession Abilities

[Nathan W]

Sounds cool.
nswesquire@yahoo.com

[OnnoTasler]

I finally read your playtest document, so here are my comments:

- Why do you always have to pay all your light points? Usually, you got some effect for spending more points in those games, like a more spetacular attack or something.

- Where are the mechanisms to encourage group-play? I miss them so far.

- I would make the "evil advance chart" more scripted, no "as you see fit". "When you reach goal X", "when you have been in area Y for x hours", "when you have asked person A for keyword Z" and all those mechanisms were used during those games, but never random rolls for this case.

[Evan Anhorn]

I finally read your playtest document, so here are my comments:

- Why do you always have to pay all your light points? Usually, you got some effect for spending more points in those games, like a more spetacular attack or something.

- Where are the mechanisms to encourage group-play? I miss them so far.

- I would make the "evil advance chart" more scripted, no "as you see fit". "When you reach goal X", "when you have been in area Y for x hours", "when you have asked person A for keyword Z" and all those mechanisms were used during those games, but never random rolls for this case.

Hi, I think you make a good point about the story advancement and I'm not sure what I want to do with the forces of darkness advancing thing yet.  Of course, as you suggest, in-game events should lead to new plot development.  At the same time, I also want to give the feel to the players that the big-bads won't wait for the good guys to trigger event X.  I want to figure out a way that the forces of darkness creates a slight (and perhaps entirely artificial) "hurry up!" feeling to keep everything feeling important.

So there are really two timelines, the progress of the good guys and the progress of the bad guys, and they intersect at (for instance) boss battles?  Of course the GM wouldn't REALLY let the bad guys leap too far ahead, unless this was the type of RPG that the players could actually lose (by taking too long or being defeated in battles too often, which both advance the forces of darkness).  This is just brainstorming.

As for the light/dark points, spending more points definitely has a more spectacular effect.  Take this combo S-Move (that I am just making up on the fly):

Cross-Slash
Combo:  Any characters with melee weapons and light points.
Target:  One enemy target anywhere on the battlefield.
Effect:  Each participating character may immediately make a number of melee attacks against the target equal to the light points she spent on this S-Move.

Some uses even require a certain amount to be spent.  I decided that all light points must be spent every time you want to use any light points because this treats light (and dark) points less like a hoarded resource.

If they worked just like fate points in other games, which are awarded and spent piecemeal, players tend to spend them sparingly (encouraging you to save and build up your points).  With light points, however, you should be encouraged to spend them when you get them, because you effectively cannot keep a couple as insurance.  I just find this a much more dynamic and exciting way to use them.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you mean by group-play, do you mean characters acting cooperatively or mechanics for players cooperating?  Or something else?

As for players' cross-investment with the cast of characters, the dialogue cutscenes will hopefully develop everyone's interest in the different character stories.  For player cooperation, there will be rules for combo moves (for instance, as given above) that might require an assortment of professions (maybe a move combines a damage spell from a magic job and a ranged attack from a martial job).  Light points are also awarded for helping the group.  Other than that, the heroes of the old 16 bit classics were always special for one reason or another, and only they were able to defeat the big, bad boss.  This would be a feature of the GM's story line, of course.

I was playing FF12 Revenant Wings the other day, and I'm realizing now that it never even explains why this group of children sets off to stop the bad guy.  At the same time, it never came into my head that the kids should just call in the king's army to do the job.  I guess after you defeat that first boss, you think "hey, these kids are pretty good at it, maybe they are chosen to defeat the big evil?"

[OnnoTasler]

Of course, as you suggest, in-game events should lead to new plot development.  At the same time, I also want to give the feel to the players that the big-bads won't wait for the good guys to trigger event X.

I think it would be easiest to write a strategy for the evil guys, a "how to achieve world domination" in most cases. This "how to" could be developed during the "cutscenes" in which players and GM cooperates. (For some completely unknown reason, beaten bosses will tell heroes something along the lines of "ha, you might have defeated me but you will never conquer the black fortress!" Either that, or an imprisioned villages will give some obvious clue.) So, here the player create the "triggers" when the evil guys advance.

Now, let the players either decide where the next trigger happens or when the next trigger happens. (Remember that defeating as well as losing against a boss is always a trigger) As these games tended to be more about the story than timely logic (you could walk around for days after the peasant girl told you the orcs will destroy her village at noon and still arrive in time to save it and vice versa) the pure triggering will be very much in touch with the source material. Perhaps you can take the adventure creation tips from SotC.

Of course, you could also use "time triggers" as did the Ultima series. (If the quest says "be at the fountain at 7:43 of Welshday with a flaks", you better be there at exactly that time with a flask or you will never solve the game) Of course, using them in this extreme fashion would be rather frustrating, so the "losing" should just prevent the heroes from finishing this goal - and having to take on another quest to achieve whatever they wanted to.

Of course the GM wouldn't REALLY let the bad guys leap too far ahead, unless this was the type of RPG that the players could actually lose (by taking too long or being defeated in battles too often, which both advance the forces of darkness).

Now, I think the players should be able to lose the game - or at least their current party. Sideeffect: Whenever a boss wipes a party out (he "wins"), that undoes some of his progress. And the player will start with a new party who are somehow connected to the old one, more or less each player giving his character to another player who then takes him as inspiration for a new character. This new character gets some (say 30 %) of the old character's possessions and continues his task.

Imagine the following: King Evil finally wiped out the party, but he gathered so many resources in one point that some of the already controlled provinces could free themselves. Of course, the heroes death inspired some new heroes who continue to fight King Evil. Take the total party kill as a cliffhanger, if you want so - whenever the evil guys get to far ahead, the players can decide to sacrifice their old party to get a new chance.

As for the light/dark points, spending more points definitely has a more spectacular effect.  Take this combo S-Move (that I am just making up on the fly)

Hm, yes, that sounds good. But you should clarify this under the general introduction of light/darkness points, like putting a sentence "the more light points you have, the stronger the effect".

Another way to encourage spending light points is making them go away at the end of the session and having to earn them anew the next one. That would quickly stop hoarding (as that would be dump) and instead incite spending them as quickly as possible.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you mean by group-play, do you mean characters acting cooperatively or mechanics for players cooperating?  Or something else?

Mechanics for players cooperating, like an anti-Agon (which has rules for player competition).