card game ideas and concepts

[williamhessian]

Back a bunch of years I created a game using buildable cards, in which a robot (think Gundam) is used to be build up/ upgraded by laying cards on top of your base card and thus upgrade your robot in attempt to out fire power your opponents robot. Has anyone seen anything like that being done in card games?

I have an old really bad quality link to some of the cards: http://www.tbns.net/billyjay/cardgame.html

The concept was actually really fun to play, although the actual gameplay needed a lot of tweaking. It had a really fun quality of watching your base robot go from ordinary to having a cannon arm, a shell defensive right arm and a tank cannon for a head and blowing away the opponents robot. It was a very satisfying idea, just never progressed.

Has this concept been done before? Do you think there is an appeal to play a game such as this? Don't you think the name konstructobots is terrible (i blmae my youth on that one)?

any feedback is appreciated on an old game idea

[chronoplasm]

The basic premise reminds me a little bit of Hecatomb, but the implementation is quite different.
If you haven't played Hecatomb, you might look into it for some inspiration.

The name could use some work though.

One thing you might consider, for fluff reasons:
Why do the people in this setting use giant bipedal robots?

[Nathan W]

In the past I've dabbled in designing CCGs with only limited success. One idea that I played around with was similar to the one you have here, though it seems like you've got a clearer idea of where you're going with it. I think the inclusion of characters (pilots, engineers, etc.) is great! Mine was only about the robots and their various parts. I'd be excited to see you make some progress on this game. If you develop the premise well then I think it would be a game I'd enjoy playing.

[Nev the Deranged]

The link appears broken, so you know.

Based solely one the description here, I'm reminded (again) of Z*G, and also Ronin, and Mechaton. Not all of those involve cards, but they do involve modular mechanical combatants. I would not be surprised if there are several other mech games out there, it's a popular genre.

If you fix the link, I'll take a look and hopefully have more useful feedback.

[chronoplasm]

Link works fine for me.

He does bring up a good point though. It is a popular genre, so you have to figure out something else to throw into the mix to make it a little different. I usually just drop a dictionary or thesaurus on the floor, read the first word I see, then work from that.

[williamhessian]

the link works for me. does it work for others?

it may take a bit to load. again, be prepared for bad quality images.

chronoplasm:
the original storyline behind the game, is a futuristic world in which a pro sport is robot battling. By playing the game you are managing your own team of robotics. Trying to hire and use pilots, mechanics and buy and use the best robotic parts. The nets feed live universal broadcasts of these massive battles. Your crew must out build, out strategize and out technologize the other team. ( i would consider it a futuristic Nascar type race, only instead of a car, its a huge robot). Much like why do we have a sport that drive cars around and around in circles, when the vehicles could be used for more practical purposes like transporting goods. The robots in this future world original were used for space construction, travelling, ect. Now the wealthy use the needlessly upgraded and super powered robots for sport and entertainment.

thats the basic idea.

i have never played nor really know anything about ronin, z*g, mechaton, or Hecacomb. I should look into all of these.

[williamhessian]

yeah, just to clarify...i hate the name. if i do anything with these cards again, i promise the name will be changed.

i think the action cards will have a lot to do with the world surrounding the game, like viewership, fandom, sponsorship, corruption, ect, which will help develop not only the gameplay but also the diverse world surrounding the sport of super machine fighting.

[chronoplasm]

Super Machine Fighting.
There you go, thats a perfectly could name.
Or...

Super Machine Fighting Federation SMFF

[williamhessian]

haha. awesome.

good thinking.

[Nev the Deranged]

yeah, just to clarify...i hate the name. if i do anything with these cards again, i promise the name will be changed.

i think the action cards will have a lot to do with the world surrounding the game, like viewership, fandom, sponsorship, corruption, ect, which will help develop not only the gameplay but also the diverse world surrounding the sport of super machine fighting.

Z*G has done most of that. It is defunct, though, so although it still has a large fanbase, it wouldn't be direct competition. And you may be approaching it from a different angle. Any game in any genre is necessarily going to cover some of the standard ground for the genre, so that's not necessarily a bad thing; the key is to find a way to make it fresh.

As for the "nascar" aspect, there is an anime that is literally nascar-meets-giant-robots. Teams race one round, fight one round, race one round, fight one round, etc. I forget what it's called though, and I don't know if there is an associated game in English.

Ah, looks like the link works now. I'll check it out.

[williamhessian]

Nev. what did you think after seeing the cards?

I want to watch that cartoon you mentioned about racing and robot fighting. sounds insane, ive got to see it. if you think of the name of it, please let me know.

I dont even like Nascar myself, but i think the idea of turning cars into a sport still fascinates me to no end. This concept was build parrallel to the science fiction story i was writing. which had nothing directly to do with the Super Machine Fighting other than the fact that they both live in the same world and time period.

[Nev the Deranged]

The anime is "IGPX: Immortal Grand Prix", a quick google will find images and details for you, I'm sure.

I really like your design work on the cards and your hand illustrations. It's clear you've put a lot of work and thought into them. There is a lot of information on the cards (another aspect that is much like Z*G... if you end up coming to Forge Midwest, remind me to bring a couple sets to show you, I have a case and a half). I couldn't really figure out how the game works from the cards, it could be really generic and standard, or you could have some really neat mechanics, I don't know.

Like you, I have a ton of unfinished designs for various kinds of games laying around in folders and notebooks... some people are driven to complete things, and some people, like us, are just slaves to the fickle little gremlins that live in our brains.

[williamhessian]

Nev, where do you live? I had no idea about the Forge midwest, until yesterday. So i hope i can find time for it. Because it would be a blast.

I am watching half of an IGPX episode on youtube right now! Looks awesome! What a cool concept for a show. Right up my alley.

About my cards and the loads of info on them....i actually really dislike having so much info on a card. But i wasn't sure how to simplify the game, or have complex specialities without explaining them out with words. I'm sure a little time working on that I could boil it down a bit or modify rules for simplification purposes.

Its fun to find another person that understands how fun and yet frustrating it can be to have tons of ideas, and never be able to get them to completion. Luckily for me, i keep all my projects close by, and plan to go back and work on them as time permits. Or at least use the experience to aid the betterment of future projects. I love having tons of projects, and if i can find a way to finish one of them, then there is hope for every project in my vast queue of creations. As im sure you have the same feelings.

I want to be a person that is driven to complete things and a person who is driven to create things that temporarily live as gremlins in my brain. But maybe that is unrealistic. 

[Nev the Deranged]

So, I would have posted this on the blog itself, but you have anon posting turned off, and I refuse to join yet another website. So, you get an email instead. *EDIT* except you don't, because your lj email doesn't work. So you get a Forge post instead.

*

I think the bomb works best the way it was- it's basically similar to the Spy in Stratego in concept, or at least that's what it makes me think of. Having it be worth 3 after the initial "explosion" is confusing. The way you explained it when I demoed it made perfect sense. Lay it down for a swift kill, after that it's easy pickings, and not worth much to claim- what use is an exploded bomb? That makes it useful to play when you haven't got any high cards, and the opponent usually gets a nice 1 point consolation prize. That's my take, anyway.

Deck balance is the bugaboo of all CCG/TCG type games. It's one reason I suck at them- I'm not good at it. It's also a reason why when I design card games, I specifically design them so that deck balancing is not an issue, because I sure as hell don't want to have to do it for every possible combination of cards, and I don't want to have to consider it when creating new cards.

It vaguely remember you saying that all the cards added up to the same base point value, and that seems like the way to go. I'm not sure that having one of the edge attributes double as the scoring value makes that work out well, though. That makes that edge more important mechanically than any of the others, leading to the very problem you've outlined above- that nailing one big value card (with a bomb, for instance) can tip the game irrecoverably in favor of one player.

Strategy is best, to my mind, when leavened by a little luck, but not so much that the strategy is compromised. Luck should allow a less proficient player to win once in a while, while the more proficient player should win most, but not all, of the time. There's no reason to play if it's a sure thing, after all.

Just my 2 cents.

D.