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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4283 Members Latest Member: - otto Most online today: 76 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: <W6-Space Ranger> Need help with mechanics.  (Read 1120 times)
CSBone
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« on: November 19, 2008, 06:21:35 AM »

url=http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/space-rangers][b]here[/b][/url]).url=http://groups.google.com/group/wildwalkers-w6/files]Go here<hereGo here
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dindenver
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 07:51:24 AM »

Neil,
  Have you looked at Solar System/.Shadow of Yesterday?

  I am a huge fan, but two mechanics in it strike me as applicable to your problem
1) Keys - in TSoY, Keys are part of the character sheet are chosen at charg4n and can be changed therough the use of XPs. What they do is establish what the character is about. One good example is, Key of Compassion. You get Varying XPs depending on if you help someone, if it is dangerous for you to help them and if the person being helped learns how to help them selves in the end or not. this one concept is fascinating to be it own game, but this is just one of many Keys that come pre-built in the game.
2) Secrets - Secrets are like special power, but they are usually thematically important and chosen freely by the player rather than part of a Class or what have you.

  So, maybe heroism dice can work like Keys (get dice when you fulfill your motivation for being in this story) and Action dice can be like Secrets (get dice when you do something cool) or vice versa?

  Also, why a d18? And why a 2d6 if the player is younger?

  What makes a Strength Parenthetical?

  This systems seems to be agnostic in regards any story concerns. I mean players get a luck mechanic (its not clear when Hero/Action dice get used, before or after the regular roll, this will drastically change their use and dynamic). but that luck mechanic currently is not tied to story concerns, character beliefs or even player effort really. I feel like if there is a way for the player to say, "this is important to me" this system might pop more. Another source that might get your juices flowing is 3:16, in this game a player can narrate a flashback of how their character faced a similar situation and then they win the conflict automatically (there is another version for losing automatically too, btw). This allows the players to elaborate on their character's back story in a way that is in context of the current story and success at the stuff that is most important to them. Maybe you could do something like this?

  Either way, good luck with your game man!
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Dave M
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Gregor Hutton
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 09:54:45 AM »

Hey Neil

I remember Space Rangers well, it's been a long time and welcome back!

I've printed out your system and I'll have a read through it and get back to you. I guess you've got that lifepath kind of thing going on with character creation, and I like that conflicts have Hit Points. Anyway, it seems like there is a lot on intricacy there but I'm not sure what sort of play it's trying to drive in the fiction, or what are useful Strengths, etc.

Anyway, off to read more closely and have a think about it!
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Gregor Hutton
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 10:39:12 AM »

Oh, and just as a note to myself here is the thread from the archive that links together the original threads.

I'm excited to see this still being worked on.
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CSBone
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 06:10:32 PM »

url=http://www.microlite20.net][b]Microlite20[/b][url=http://forum.microlite20.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117]Redjack (6th post). CASpers<Microlite20Redjack (6th post). CASpers
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dindenver
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2008, 07:07:00 AM »

Neil,
  Hmmm...
  What I meant by "agnostic in regards any story concerns" is that the system doesn't seem to care if the player rolling is helping or hurting the story or, on an even larger scale. if the roll is for a PC. is a spur of the moment throw away roll. or if everyone at the table is holding their breath to see what will happen.

  So, the suggestions I made were aimed in that direction.

  The idea that you can make the character about story without pinning a character class or alignment on them is not new, but it probably has not been fully explored.

 That's why I suggested altering the Action/Hero Dice to clearly be about what the player wants and/or what the story wants and why.

  So maybe, instead of loosey-goosey rules like 'if they player advances the story, they get a cookie,' how about 'if the character is compassionate and they do something compassionate, give them a cookie.' Since the story is supposed to be about the PCs, defining who they are (in a limited way that allows for flexible story telling) makes it easier for the GM and players to identify the story everyone wants to tell and advance it organically. Going in that direction, maybe that is how Action Dice could work, something like this:
Key of Compassion
  If a character tries to help another character that cannot or will not help themselves, that character receives an Action die usable during the scene that the compassionate act was performed.

  In this way, they get a little oomph for the big scenes the player cares about (assuming they are allowed to pick the key themselves), but only if they are acting in character. Its still a per encounter power and best of all no record keeping, its a 'snooze you lose mechanic,' they do something nice, they get the die for one scene, they don't use it, it goes away.

  We could probably do something "like" that for Hero dice, but I don't want to waste too much brain power thinking of a good mechanic if you don't want to go in this direction...

  So, if that is what you mean by it is not juicy enough, then, yeah. Otherwise, what does 'Juicy' mean? Maybe I can help that come to life better if I knew what you were aiming at.
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Dave M
Author of Legends of Lanasia RPG (Still in beta)
My blog
Free Demo
CSBone
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2008, 05:24:22 AM »

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dindenver
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2008, 11:19:15 AM »

Neil,
  I liked Strengths as is. I think that the player defines what they are, is a big dose of awesome.
  I think its Action dice/Hero dice that "aren't special." They are good, but I don't see why anyone would get psyched about them.
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Dave M
Author of Legends of Lanasia RPG (Still in beta)
My blog
Free Demo
CSBone
Member

Posts: 65


« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2008, 02:30:56 PM »

I've got to admit, I really like Strengths myself. To be able to define a fantastically cool character in 15 minutes that is Player specific...much "juice".

If I gave up on being able to use d6's only and changed the base back to D20 and the Strengths scale from +1/+2/+3/+4/+5 to +d4+d6+d8+d10+d12; Heroism Dice could probably go away as a Mechanic. The range gets big enough without going over the top..and polyhedrals are a much more sci-fi-y prop.

In the original design, "Gonzo" sucesses (essentially a critical success) let the Player take the Author stance in the narrative and change things up by narrating a "wild" sucess (or a "wild" failure...PCs should always be able to make things tougher on themselves if they want to. It cranks up the game and raises the level of engagement) so long as they didn't break verisimilitude. There is a lot I liked about the idea...I just didn't like how it "felt", mechanics wise, in the mechanics I was building before. I'm planning on writing that into the base mechanics when I write in the Player rolls everything mechanics.

Still...something is missing. I want a mechanic, or set of mechanics that will flag the action and allow everyone at the table a way to:

A: Affect the action from their seat by giving some of their resources away or putting new resources into play so that everybody is playing all of the time.
B: Allow people to increase or decrease the pace.
C: Allow people to raise the level of conflict or crank it down.
D: Comunicate clearly, in the moment, what is important  and "juicy"so the GM can make the game more fun for the Player.
E: Can be used to power "cool stuff" or "going out on a limb".

I think Action  Dice does all of that... it is just not particularly "juicy". WHat I need is a mechannic that does all of that without adding a lot to the volume of the mechanics? I would still like to keep the system as light as possible. I'd also like to keep the definitions of the actual characteristics for the Players.

WHat I've got so far, though is:
Heroism dice can go if I change the scale of bonuses and the dice base.
I need to write in the Author stance for critical successes...and loss of all narration rights for critical failures...GMs should get some fun too.

Still missing a big resource but I'm getting there...and this is feeling mch better than the original mechanics.

Neil

I wonder about a Token mechanic of some sort...
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CSBone
Member

Posts: 65


« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2008, 09:36:34 AM »

Just finished kludging these ideas together with stuff from the original game.

W6-20-SpaceRangers-Version0.8-112308ns.rtf

It's pretty rough but I'm excited about how it is going together.

I know I've got to do a Power 19 on this at some point, but something that is very clear to me now is that I want to support a mechanically light Sim/Nar Creative Agenda. I'm interested in Task Resolution, not Conflict Resolution...and that is a big change from the orginal.

Next step I think is some play-testing...

Things I know I'm missing right now:
  • Meta-system for world creation (perhaps even a meta game)
  • System for defining and building antagonists and conflicts.
  • Benchmarks for conflicts.
  • Background is a mess.
  • Equipment and technology essays and lists.

Neil
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Gregor Hutton
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 06:15:42 AM »

Thanks Neil. I've collected the file and printed it off. I'll try making some characters and see where I get stuck and so on.

Gregor
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CSBone
Member

Posts: 65


« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2008, 11:30:49 AM »

Thanks Gregor. Been a bit busy so I haven't been back in a bit.

Well, the system works really well, mechanically, but character creation is still a bit of a mess. I'm also finding the system does not support "gear porn" as well as I'd like.

Right now I have 4 character creation systems sort of defined:
  • 15 Points, pick as you'd like.
  • 4 Phases.
  • Background questions.
  • Open ended.
They all work but I'm not really getting what I want. I've created about a dozen characters, all told, using the various systems and they are just not exciting me.

My thought right now is to scam Gregor's Combat/Non Combat as the two base attributes, one at d20, one at d20+d4. Traits then are upshifts (Null to +1, +1 to d4, d4 to d6, d6 to D8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12).

That fixes the one problem I'm seeing which is that I'm building combat into every character as the first thing and that's kind of boring.

Doesn't, yet, fix my wish to support "gear porn", though...

Just some thoughts. I'm off to re-write V.08 and do some more testing.

Neil
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CSBone
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Posts: 65


« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2008, 11:46:14 AM »

Strengths, not Traits...

Neil
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