Sorcerer: is Chucky and object demon?

[John Adams]

I'm about to start my very first game of Sorcerer. Sweet! We make characters tonight and I have 2 weeks before the first full run. I'm sure I'll have plenty of confusion as we get under way, but right now this is stuck in my head.

What is Chucky? Are demonic toys object demons, passers or something else?

The description of object demons (pg. 48) implies the object and demon are separate things, "object demons are invested into physical items ..." so is the demon Summoned from "not here" into the object and banished from the object back to "not here"? The object existed before it was "possessed" and does not evaporate if the demon is killed or banished, right? Wu (the pistol from the example) could be banished and you might still be able to shoot someone with that gun?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi John,

I actually haven't seent the Chucky movies, so you'll have to fill this in for me. Is Chucky ...

Basically not recognized as bad or weird by most people, "just a doll," and then occasionally flares into very recognizable, very scary, very non-normal activity, which is out of the scope for what dolls do?

A doll at all times, who either confers weirdness toward others or does weird stuff in his capacity as a doll, i.e., as utilized by someone?

The former is Inconspicuous, with the dollness being nothing more than a special effect. The latter is an Object, in which being a doll does matter to what it is and does. Passer doesn't apply; Chucky is not ordinarily perceived as a normal living being.

My impression is the former. Usually, Objects are easy to understand because they aren't ordinarily capable of independent movement (at least not when you're looking ...), but in the case of a doll, that becomes a greyer area. Still, though, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems to me that Chucky is more fun when the whole point is that this innocent looking doll gets up and does this awful stuff on its own.

Regarding the physicality of Object demons, I recommend you stay with the textual idea that the object must already physically exist, at least to start. However, for later games and with people who know the rules well, bear in mind that this might be tweaked if a more "summon the gun from nothing" concept is a definite and satisfying outgrowth of how you're thinking about sorcery's look & feel & use in your particular game.

Best, Ron

[John Adams]

I'm pretty sure Chucky is in evil mode all the time. He might pretend to be inanimate, but then he grabs a kitchen knife and chases you around. Good fun.

[Ron Edwards]

Huh, I guess I understood it pretty well after all ...

Anyway, it looks to me like Inconspicuous is the way to go. That's a very open Type, with no restrictions on conferring abilities. However, I think I'd pick abilities to be conferred only to itself, so that it has similarities to the constrained build of Passers, and also make sure one of those abilities is Cover so it can really roll well if someone suspects it's not just a doll. Hence it's a Passer-like Inconspicuous demon, and since it's not really a Passer, it's OK that it's a doll and not a living being.

Best, Ron

[jburneko]

Now that you mention Chucky....

He's kind of an interesting case.  John, it doesn't look like you're trying to model Chucky perfectly so what I'm about to ask probably doesn't apply to you.  I love killer dolls as just killer dolls.

Here's Chucky's full origin:

So there's this serial killer on the verge of being caught.  Right before he dies he performs a ritual to transfer his soul into the doll.  Chucky for all intents and purposes is this serial killer and his goal is find a new real human body so he can get back to human things like sex and more killing.

So in some sense he starts out as a (zero Humanity) Sorcerer and Chucky is sort of like a Necromantic token and in the end he aspires to be a possessor demon with Hop.

I have this sense that setup is possible within the scope of Sorcerer (especially given some of the material in Sorcerer's Soul) but I'm not quite seeing the flow.

Jesse