Massive Internal Conflict

[Wibbledtodeath]

Thank you Joywriter for this thread! I have been lurking for a while now but have always felt my ideas too retro for this hip crowd. However since you have been brave enough to step forward I really have no excuse to not throw my hat in the ring. I have had a very similar dilemma (although I come from a simulationist 1st perspective, rather than the Gamist angle).

power-gaming is more of a strategist's endeavor where as role-playing is more about being an actor / story teller. D&D seems to embrace both to appeal to a greater audience, but actually causes a bit a of rift in the process.... which means that there is a need for an RPG system that does one or the other; not both.

This I think is very much in tune with the philosophy i see dominant on The Forge (although using Simulationist/Gamist/Narrativist terms and language). However, respectfully...I totally disagree.

An old school gamer, i am amazed by the imagination and creativity involved in the recent wave of Avant-garde RPG's
driven by this philosophy. This forum and others like are a goldmine of great ideas. But there are very few new games that i would actually be able to play with my friends on more than a one off demo style manner. Why? Because none of the gaming groups I know are composed of only simulationists, or only gamists, or only narrativist players. I think each element has been present in every successful campaign I have ever been in

And I think D&D 4th ed is a classic example of 'lets make it one or the other' attitude (its hip to diss on D&D/gamist games, so i will use it as my example but it holds true for other all or nothing games as well). I can see why it was done, but by making a game so completely offensive to simulationist sensibilities (everything is sold at a set 1/4 rate, you cant have pets and horses, that would give you more attacks and be unfair etc) and barreft of narrative makes it hard to play in a mixed group. Its different, its fun for a short while. But it doesnt hold everyones attention for long. 2/3 of the spectrum find themselves with nothing to do. 

And thats a shame, because I love playing with people who get something different out of the game. Much of the fun is had at a social contract level, not in game. Thats why i dont just play the SIms. Maybe I surf with a geeky crowd but every group i play with needs a system that lands in the middle, and gives everyone something to do and enjoy. 

So,  while this field may be glutted with games and systems, and catering to one style (currently narrative is in vogue) is a great way of finding some free market space..there are a lot of lurkers like me who troll through forums and online games looking for retro gold gaming concepts that will work for other play styles as well. Ideas that maybe can be used in a middle of the road campaign.

Please write yours Joywriter. I would love to see it. 

[JoyWriter]

Easy mistake to make, but it's not my thread, it was made by MJBauer.

Don't feel intimidated, people will have a poke at your ideas, but in my experience they'll do it nicely. If you feel you have ideas to make a game that works for varying styles of player, and even allows groups to shift creative agenda during a campaign, or finds overlaps between what people call creative agendas that make them compatible simultaniously, then show it off!

But if your just looking for a game to pass time while the real fun goes on over the top of it, well I wonder how much you need to design that. Surely any game you all can tolerate that doesn't take up too much brainpower is good?

Now I suspect your ambitions lie somewhere between those two, between the pinnacle of integrated creative group dynamics and the game version of background music. What games have really done what your looking for, how much of that was "in the rules", and to what extent do you think you can build rules to encourage a similar state again? But as this is MJ's thread, I suggest you post about it in a new one.