Cowboys and Samurai (WIP) ~constructive criticism wanted!

[Marc Truant]

The document is very incomplete as of now, but I figured that you folks might be able to help me with my new RPG idea. It's called, very simply, Cowboys and Samurai and takes place in a post-apocalyptic future where the player takes on the role of either a gunslinger or a swordsman (and from there, they can progress).

As I said, very incomplete system and documentation as I just started work on it last night, but I'd like to hear your thoughts so far! Please be kind.

The system is influenced by GURPS, the Storyteller System, and a few others whose names escape me...

You can view the document so far here.

Thanks in advance!
~Marc DeGuzman

[dindenver]

Marc,
  I am not sure if I like Moxie as a stat for Dex/Speed. My first thought when I hear Moxie is courage or persistence.
  Also, I think it would be more interesting if Health was (Vigor x 6) + (Enthusiasm x 4). You can do the same thing to all your calculated stats. I know it makes it more complicated, but it also make it more interesting.
  Finally, you have 10 skills, 5 of which are combat-related. And there are no knowledge skills at all. But you have an Aptitude stat. Even if you allow for rolling against Aptitude it will not be the same as rolling against 10+Aptitude as if you had a real skill. Personally, I would make Unarmed, Melee and have it include unarmed and blunt. Then Ditch Blunt and replace it with Awareness (to counter traps and stealth) or Knowledge/Education. Right now, you have 5 ways for a character to roll to solve a problem with violence, one way for a character to roll and solve a problem with talking and no way to roll and solve a problem with their minds. Was that your intention?
  I am not trying to dog on you, I just wanted to be sure that you were seeing what I was seeing.
  Good luck on your new design!

[Marc Truant]

Marc,
  I am not sure if I like Moxie as a stat for Dex/Speed. My first thought when I hear Moxie is courage or persistence.
  Also, I think it would be more interesting if Health was (Vigor x 6) + (Enthusiasm x 4). You can do the same thing to all your calculated stats. I know it makes it more complicated, but it also make it more interesting.
  Finally, you have 10 skills, 5 of which are combat-related. And there are no knowledge skills at all. But you have an Aptitude stat. Even if you allow for rolling against Aptitude it will not be the same as rolling against 10+Aptitude as if you had a real skill. Personally, I would make Unarmed, Melee and have it include unarmed and blunt. Then Ditch Blunt and replace it with Awareness (to counter traps and stealth) or Knowledge/Education. Right now, you have 5 ways for a character to roll to solve a problem with violence, one way for a character to roll and solve a problem with talking and no way to roll and solve a problem with their minds. Was that your intention?
  I am not trying to dog on you, I just wanted to be sure that you were seeing what I was seeing.
  Good luck on your new design!

Out of preference, I'm keeping Moxie. It's actually used as the agility/dexterity stat in the game Kingdom of Loathing, so I kind of borrowed from that.

But I do see what you're saying about the skills. I initially thought it'd be balanced if I had 5 combat skills and 5 other skills, but I see your point. I'm gonna be making those changes.

[dindenver]

Also, what is the dice mechanic you are thinking about? It's hard to get a feel for those numbers with no context.
And you might want to think about using Notoriety to create a sort of Social HPs. That way you might be able to use the same mechanics you use for combat for social conflicts.
I think using armor as skill enhancers is brilliant. Personally, I might ditch the idea of using armor to give penalties. But I like my PCs to want to wear armor. But, if you want to balance no armor against wearing armor, that is not appropriate. Alternatively, you could ditch the penalties and give skill bonuses to wearing different kinds of street clothes (like maybe fancy clothes give a bonus to Speech).

[Marc Truant]

Also, what is the dice mechanic you are thinking about? It's hard to get a feel for those numbers with no context.
And you might want to think about using Notoriety to create a sort of Social HPs. That way you might be able to use the same mechanics you use for combat for social conflicts.
I think using armor as skill enhancers is brilliant. Personally, I might ditch the idea of using armor to give penalties. But I like my PCs to want to wear armor. But, if you want to balance no armor against wearing armor, that is not appropriate. Alternatively, you could ditch the penalties and give skill bonuses to wearing different kinds of street clothes (like maybe fancy clothes give a bonus to Speech).

The dice mechanic is similar to the Storyteller's System. I'm still working on it. It's very incomplete, as I said, so I still need to work it out completely.
And as for armors giving penalties, the only penalties would be if you're trading more movement for more health or vice versa. The heavier the armor, of course the less you get to move, but the more strength you get.

As for street clothes, that's all in the character description. Armor is something else entirely. I'll elaborate more once I get further into the document.
Just so you know, this world doesn't really have "street clothes". It's a post-apocalyptic future that's very much like the Old West, with Eastern hints and touches here and there.

[Catelf]

I have to point out something obvious:
If each Attribute must be at least 1, and you may only place 10 Points ........
The most you can get in one Attribute is 6, not 10!
And then, the other 4 are at 1!

Have i read wrong, or you written it incorrect?

Also, how do you mean that the Skill System is similar to the Storytelling System, when it is from 10 to 100?
(The Storytelling Sysrem has always(?) been 1-10, each Point(Dot) equalling one D10.)

Catelf

[Marc Truant]

I have to point out something obvious:
If each Attribute must be at least 1, and you may only place 10 Points ........
The most you can get in one Attribute is 6, not 10!
And then, the other 4 are at 1!

Have i read wrong, or you written it incorrect?

Also, how do you mean that the Skill System is similar to the Storytelling System, when it is from 10 to 100?
(The Storytelling Sysrem has always(?) been 1-10, each Point(Dot) equalling one D10.)

Catelf

That's the point. You're not supposed to be a master at anything. You can upgrade your attributes later.

And the skill system isn't similar. The dice system is. It'll be explained later. Like I've said a hundred times, it is very incomplete.

[Marc Truant]

UPDATE: Re-doing the skills system and making it out of ten, which is a lot simpler and better for this kind of system.

[Catelf]

UPDATE: Re-doing the skills system and making it out of ten, which is a lot simpler and better for this kind of system.

Do that mean it is more Storytelling-like now, or .......?

[Marc Truant]

Do that mean it is more Storytelling-like now, or .......?

Yep!

[hix]

Hi Marc. Is there anything, in particular, that you'd like our thoughts about?

[Marc Truant]

Hi Marc. Is there anything, in particular, that you'd like our thoughts about?

Right now? Anything. I'd actually like some suggestions.

I'm also working on another system, a MUCH simpler one that'll probably be finished by the end of this month, but I'll probably make a separate topic for that, haha.

[Mike Sugarbaker]

You have just one thing in your rules right now that really, truly makes cowboys and samurai different: their starting special abilities. And I'm sorry but Dead Aim is broken. If I'm not a cowboy and I want to keep hold of the character that I've invested time and imagination in, I'd better always hide behind something unless I really trust the people I'm playing with.

What are your goals here? You're clearly trying to make a combat game about how close combat and ranged are different, and you show clear signs of having figured out that theme and mechanics should support each other in that respect. But you've got to zoom out and figure out what you want the players' experience of play to feel like. If you just build (what you think is) a simulation and leave it up to players and GMs to make it fun, you're not going to meet with success by any criteria I can imagine for a game. But maybe I'm just not imaginative, so: what do you want?

[Marc Truant]

You have just one thing in your rules right now that really, truly makes cowboys and samurai different: their starting special abilities. And I'm sorry but Dead Aim is broken. If I'm not a cowboy and I want to keep hold of the character that I've invested time and imagination in, I'd better always hide behind something unless I really trust the people I'm playing with.

What are your goals here? You're clearly trying to make a combat game about how close combat and ranged are different, and you show clear signs of having figured out that theme and mechanics should support each other in that respect. But you've got to zoom out and figure out what you want the players' experience of play to feel like. If you just build (what you think is) a simulation and leave it up to players and GMs to make it fun, you're not going to meet with success by any criteria I can imagine for a game. But maybe I'm just not imaginative, so: what do you want?

What do I want of the players? I don't know. Maybe I just wanted to explore a different side of gunslingers and sword-swinging samurai in the post-apocalypse. I could easily adapt this setting for another system, which would probably be wiser in the first place, but I guess I wanted the mechanics to really fit it. The players have the chance to explore something like an Old Western and the Seven Samurai simultaneously, mixing the hard-boiled idea of outlaws and lawmen with wandering ronin and Earth-connected mystics.

As far as the abilities go, I'm still working out how I want to balance them and make them "equal" in a sense without having them be carbon copies of each other.

[dindenver]

Marc,
  OK, on the special abilities, three things are unclear:
1) Do player know when characters have cover, or is this something you roll for?
2) If you use dead aim on a character that has cover, do you roll a regular attack, or does it automatically miss?
3) What do you roll for a chance roll, is 8 or higher easy or hard to get?