Free Will in the Middle?

[Le Joueur]

My experience as a player is that I do chafe somewhat at the limitations I feel in a game.  What I'm trying to get to grips with is whether these limitations have a positive function in the game, whether I'm over-reacting to them, whether they're necessary, and where they should be if they should be anywhere.

...I prioritize Narrativist goals, and when playing with a GM prioritizing other goals I tend to chafe somewhat (i.e. I'm keenly aware of the limitations).

...Permit me to reframe the discussion.

In a given instance of play, using a given system, there will be limitations.  Where do we think the bottlenecks are?

In a game that suits you?  Right where you want them to be: out of sight.  The problem here really seems to be that you play with people who like limitations that make you "chafe."  Find the right game (or play one the right way) and I don't see a problem with the concept of limitations at all.

My take on it is this (briefly):
 
You can get away with a great deal of limitation in setting up play in terms of decisions about characters, genre, setting and so on.  I think limitations later are much more obvious and much more chafing.

That's great, as long as you play with people who feel the same way.  This just isn't a 'right or wrong' discussion.  There's no 'right' way.  What you want is not to examine limitations in terms of scenario design but to examine your preferences of limitations.  Yours are not right; they aren't wrong either, they're just preferences.

For god's sake, if it "chafes," change it.  Beware that your changes may make it "chafe" for others.

Because I can guarantee you that there'll be people who "chafe" at putting all the limitations in the set up phase.  Either they'll feel that it requires 'too much work' up front or leaves them not knowing what they can or cannot do later on.  Remember one person's limitations are another's guidelines.

In the end all I can say is 'to each, his own.'  You just aren't going to find a game system or scenario design practice that will satisfy the gamemaster "prioritizing other goals" and yourself.  It doesn't happen; sorry.

Do we chalk this one up to 'find another group more to your liking' then?

Fang Langford

[Andrew Martin]

Andrew: I had a bit of a read of the Ratio/Star Frontiers stuff on your site.  It was interesting and does open up a lot of possibilities in certain areas of player choice.  But it's not limitless in the blanket sense that I meant: for example, Star Frontiers is a science-fiction setting which would preclude certain kinds of characters - a Victorian Nanny with a flying umbrella for example.  Not that it should: genre expectations would be one area of limitation that I would say was a good example of something positive derived from limiting players.

That's right. The percentile attributes and skills of Star Odyssey deny the existence of Mary Poppins, except in the star ship holo-deck... The token system does work well with my S game system which is for fantasy combat, (again it's unlikely that Mary Poppins would appear again). :)