A Post-Apocalyptic RPG

[kevin671]

Here's a little something I've been toying with for a while.  I would like to get a little feedback from you all, and as many suggestions as possible.  

As this will be my first foray int RPG design, I'm going with a rules system that is already established and proven:  WotC's D20 system.  Of course, I'll be innovcating it in my own ways, but I was thinking of using the VP/WP mechanic, as opposed to the HP mechanic, and giving penalties based on some sort of "wound level" mechanic.

The setting will be Earth, post nuclear war.  Since I know more about North America than any other area in the world, the basic game will be focused in North America.  I'll probably release source info for other parts of the world in later installments.

I don't have any plans to include a magic system, although minor psionic powers might (emphasis on the might) make a short appearance.

Of course, there will be a fairly exhaustive list of character classes as well as a large section of equipment (weapons, vehicles, survival gear and such).

I'll update this thread as I have more updates to add.  Sinc I don't have a website this will be the main place where I post updates untill I can set one up.

[Andrew Martin]

In what way will it be better or different from Aftermath or WotC's own post-apocalyptic RPG (which I've forgotten the name of) which was recently written up in a magazine?

[kevin671]

I need to know what aftermath is.  And I wasn't even aware that WotC had a similar RPG in a magazine.  Where can I find it?  As far as how it can be better goes, if it's in a magazine, I don't imagine that the setting etc. are particularly well developed, as a magazine does have space constraints.  Still, the magazine might be worth a look.  What I propose will have a developed setting and storyline, as well as completely fleshed out character creation and equipment rules etc.  And I will probably be modifying the character hit point mechanics to be a little more realistic.

As of yet, I still haven't really put anything concrete down on the computer, so I don't really know exactly how to answer that.....

[Andrew Martin]

I did some research using Google, http://www.google.com.

Here's the Fallout RPG site:
http://iamapsycho.com/fallout/

Note that I'm not the author of the Tennessee Sourcebook.

The TSR/WotC RPG is called "Gamma World".

Then there's Darwin's World by Dominic Covey, an advert (a preview is available) is at:
http://www.darwinrpg.com/index.php?page=pro&product_id=8

And there's Twilight of the Apocalypse at:
http://members.tripod.com/warduke13/Pages/main3.htm
which is based on FGU's Aftermath.

And here's another I knew nothing about:
http://www.deadearth.com/

I hope that helps!

[S.Lonergan]

I have no idea where this will go,
The setting definitly need more expanding,
Im interested though,

- Seamus

[kevin671]

Hey!!!!!  Thanks Andrew!!!!!  I appreciate the help!!!!  I've actually played (and completed) all three fallout games, so I know about those.  But the other stuff really does help.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Kevin,

I suggest looking over some Indie Design game threads, even back a whole bunch of pages. When someone proposes an idea or beginning design, a lot of the time the questions they get back are more general than they expected.

In this case ...

Why have character classes?
Why is it set in post-apocalyptic America? (or anywhere else)
Why play?

Please don't fire off answers to these questions right away - really, please don't. My reason for asking them is to make a point: that having "setting" and "system" doesn't constitute much reason for designing a role-playing game. I'm interested instead in "what is this game about" at the player-GM level, rather than at the character level. Can you explain a bit more about that for me?

At least one person's (mine) extensive essay on issues surrounding game design can be found in the Forge articles: GNS and related matters of role-playing design. It's not gospel or anything, but a lot of people at the Forge use its vocabulary and ideas to some extent. I'd be interested in your description of the game in these terms.

Best,
Ron

[kevin671]

Hey, Ron, thanks for the suggestions.  I'm gonna read that essay you suggested as soon as I have the time.  I think that my first idea has pretty much tanked, however, due to the fact that such a game already exists (Darwin's World) and from what I've read it seems pretty much in the same vien that I'd had in mind.  I really don't want to release a product that's already been done, so I'll be looking for a new idea.

[Maurice Forrester]

I don't know anything about Darwin's World, but there are lots of different approaches to doing post-apocalyptic settings.  Past games that I know of range from the gritty near-future of Twilight:2000 to the goofy far-future mutants of Gamma World.  Morrow Project was one that had an interesting background story in which people from our near-future are supplied and put in suspended animation (or something...) and get wakened far in the future long after the apocalyse happened.  I think that one was kind of low on the goofy mutant scale.  Aftermath had a neat little section on different types of post-apocalyptic settings ranging from low to high goofy mutants.  I used the Aftermath game for ideas for a campaign I ran a long time ago, but I never dared tackle the Aftermath rules.  An even wider range of possibilities exists in science fiction.  A search on the web should turn up some bibliographies.  Personally, I'd love to see a game inspired by Steven Boyett's "Ariel" (a coming-of-age story in a world where mythical creatures suddenly appear).

As I said, I don't about Darwin's World, but there may be room for more post-apocalytic games.

[Enoch]

The game I'm working on, Unworthy, is also a post-apocalyptic game, but it is quite differant that most PA settings.

The apocalpsye (I can never spell that word) was actually beings from another dimension coming to Earth and 'kidnapping' people without a trace.  The people left behind were minors, seniors, handicapped, convicts, insane, etc.  Basically any group of people that is considered inferior to the rest.

There are a few aspects of my setting that are differant from the standard PA setting (though I'm sure they've all been done before).

-Everything is still there and in tact, except for the cases in which someone was driving in a car when they disappear.  A good example would be The Stand, by Steven King, without all of the bodies.
-Everyone left behind are hard pressed to survive.  Children and old people will be hard pressed to survive on there own.  Of course there are people left who can survive, but they're either ex-cons or insane, which only increases the risk to the others.
-Spiritual happenings.  Without getting into the metaphysics of Unworthy, there a number of 'magical phenomenon' going on.  Some people have been reported to have strange powers.  Many people have glimpsed strange creatures as well.  Remaining dimensional beings stalk the city making it VERY dangerous to enter.

Anyway I don't know why I posted.  I really love PA games for some reason.

-Joshua

[kevin671]

So, I picked up a copy of Darwin's World today.  It's pretty cool, but not precisely the concept I was going for.  Still, since D20 now HAS an post apoc.  RPG, I guess I can't really make one for that system (and realistically expect it to make money.....)  so I'm gonna need to create my own system mechanics.  Any suggestions for the process would be greatly appreciated, as the only rules creation I've ever done has been to make house rules for an existing system.  I'll update the thread with further info as soon as I come up with it.

[deadpanbob]

I think that my first idea has pretty much tanked, however, due to the fact that such a game already exists (Darwin's World) and from what I've read it seems pretty much in the same vien that I'd had in mind.  I really don't want to release a product that's already been done, so I'll be looking for a new idea.

Kevin,

Don't necessarily back off your idea just yet.  I know that later on in the thread, you say that DW didn't do everything you wanted in the way you wanted, but that you don't want to compete with another D20 product.

That's all well and good.

Bear in mind that a lot of people around the Forge have done a lot of thinking about the theory and practice behind RPG design.  They aren't trying to discourage you in any way - its more that they are trying to get you to focus on what you want out of a game - why you've been dissatisfied with PA games in the past.

Generally, if you can begin to answer these questions on a personal level, questions about "Why don't I like DW?"  "What is it about DW's setting/mechanics/color/themes that I don't think covers Post Apocolypse in the way I think it should be covered?"

If you can answer these questions, it should help you answer Ron's.

I would suggest that you start by doing some so-called 'free writing' on those why questions.  Just put the question in your head and then write (or type, but writing seems to work better) for a defined lenght of time (ten to fifteen minutes is usually pretty good).  A lot of what you write will not be worth much, but some of it will.

When you first start such an exercise, if you haven't done it before, you may find that you "have nothing to write/say".  Write anyway.  Write the words "I have nothing to say" on the paper.  The point is to keep writing and eventually some answers will come out.

Do this a couple of times on a couple of Why? questions, and then begin to organize the responses.  Throw out anything that doesn't answer the question.  Then post the results here, and maybe people can help you organize those thoughts into an effective premise - put another way maybe the folks who post here will help you collaboratively answer the why questions.

One last thing, while I'm on my soapbox, beyond thinking about what you want out of the game in terms of how it plays, why people (really you) would want to play this game rather than Gamma World - you should really decide what you want out of publishing your game as well.  Ron's got a really good essay on this here.

(BTW - I'm not trying to be pedantic here, or insulting, just trying to provide some suggestions.  I know that sometimes I can come off sort of high-falootin', but I don't mean it)

Cheers,

Jason

[kevin671]

Actually, I'm currently working on my own rules system  (see my thread  "Some mechanics I'm toying with......).  What I meant was my idea to build it as a D20 game had tanked.  I have no desire to compete with an existing game.  

As far as the actual game goes, I'm think post-nuclear war, with a serious tone to it.  I'm still working out the mechanics of the system, which I want to more or less hammer out before developing the story.  I was also considering applying the system to other games, possibly even turning it into a Open Gaming License type of thing.

[Ferry Bazelmans]

I was also considering applying the system to other games, possibly even turning it into a Open Gaming License type of thing.

Why not just release it under the OGL then?

[kevin671]

Ferry:  It's a different system entirely (or at least it will be) that I'm working on.  Sorta pointless to release it under OGL, I mean WotC did intend OGL for thier system.