Vincent's Standard Rant: Power, Credibility and Assent

[Valamir]

Note: Quote edited for relevance to my next point.

- System, mechanics, GMs and so on

I'm unable to put a finger on it, but it feels like there may be an implicit statement that "the GM is not a Player" in your two premises.

I believe that "GMs" in the above quote is short for "special powers awarded to the player who's selected at the GM"

[Mark D. Eddy]

In a game of GURPS Traveler, the rules say that a Vargr is a canid of a height of roughly 5'6". So Vargr exist in a game of GURPS Traveller, whether the players talk about it or not.

I disagree.  The players may choose to talk about it and agree that Vargr do not in fact exist.  This would not alter their independant existance in a physical product - but it would alter their existance in an actual game.

I think the as-writ rules have a "default" credibility; but it can easily be overuled by the participants.  at may be that such a decision by one group would lower their credibility in the eyes of other Traveler players, though.

This is an argumentative fallacy. I was refuting the statement "Nothing exists in a game unless a player says it." I was not making any speculation on the rest of Vincent's argument. I concede that "whether the players talk about it or not" is somewhat confusing -- I should have been more clear that the talk I was thinking of was not a deliberate choice to leave something out.

[Mark D. Eddy]

Oh no.  The GM is most definitely a player.

-Vincent

Thank you. I was hoping as much, but I wanted to point out a potential flaw and have it stomped on quickly. Might I suggest, as a less confusing phraseology:

- System, mechanics, GM powers, and so on, are all just ways to get the players to all agree that things are true.

This will quell the only remaining concern I had about your premise.

[lumpley]

"Having a GM" is my preference.

- System, mechanics, having a GM, and so on, are all just ways to get the players to all agree that things are true.

But WHOO!  Are we there?

-Vincent

[Valamir]

So are you going to write this up as an article now?

[Mike Holmes]

BTW, in order to avoid confusion I adopt Ron's phraseology when it comes to defining some of hese terms. Namely I say that an RPG has participants some of whom may be GMs and some of whom may be players. This also just happens to work with the Finnish paper's intrerperetation.

I highly suggestadopting said terminology when discussing things on this level.

I included agent to mean any thing that affects the game in any way. Might be useful; not sure yet.

Mike

[Mark D. Eddy]

I'm happy.

   --Mark Eddy