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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4283 Members Latest Member: - otto Most online today: 54 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Vincent's Standard Rant: Power, Credibility and Assent  (Read 40466 times)
Valamir
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2002, 11:38:33 AM »

Quote from: Mark D. Eddy
Note: Quote edited for relevance to my next point.
Quote from: lumpley


- System, mechanics, GMs and so on


I'm unable to put a finger on it, but it feels like there may be an implicit statement that "the GM is not a Player" in your two premises.


I believe that "GMs" in the above quote is short for "special powers awarded to the player who's selected at the GM"
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Mark D. Eddy
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Posts: 157


« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2002, 11:41:47 AM »

Quote from: contracycle
Quote from: Mark D. Eddy
In a game of GURPS Traveler, the rules say that a Vargr is a canid of a height of roughly 5'6". So Vargr exist in a game of GURPS Traveller, whether the players talk about it or not.


I disagree.  The players may choose to talk about it and agree that Vargr do not in fact exist.  This would not alter their independant existance in a physical product - but it would alter their existance in an actual game.

I think the as-writ rules have a "default" credibility; but it can easily be overuled by the participants.  at may be that such a decision by one group would lower their credibility in the eyes of other Traveler players, though.


This is an argumentative fallacy. I was refuting the statement "Nothing exists in a game unless a player says it." I was not making any speculation on the rest of Vincent's argument. I concede that "whether the players talk about it or not" is somewhat confusing -- I should have been more clear that the talk I was thinking of was not a deliberate choice to leave something out.
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Mark Eddy
Chemist, Monotheist, History buff

"The valiant man may survive
if wyrd is not against him."
Mark D. Eddy
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Posts: 157


« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2002, 11:49:33 AM »

Quote from: lumpley
Oh no.  The GM is most definitely a player.

-Vincent


Thank you. I was hoping as much, but I wanted to point out a potential flaw and have it stomped on quickly. Might I suggest, as a less confusing phraseology:

- System, mechanics, GM powers, and so on, are all just ways to get the players to all agree that things are true.

This will quell the only remaining concern I had about your premise.
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Mark Eddy
Chemist, Monotheist, History buff

"The valiant man may survive
if wyrd is not against him."
lumpley
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2002, 12:11:19 PM »

"Having a GM" is my preference.

- System, mechanics, having a GM, and so on, are all just ways to get the players to all agree that things are true.

But WHOO!  Are we there?

-Vincent
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Valamir
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2002, 12:19:30 PM »

So are you going to write this up as an article now?
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2002, 12:46:05 PM »

BTW, in order to avoid confusion I adopt Ron's phraseology when it comes to defining some of hese terms. Namely I say that an RPG has participants some of whom may be GMs and some of whom may be players. This also just happens to work with the Finnish paper's intrerperetation.

I highly suggestadopting said terminology when discussing things on this level.

I included agent to mean any thing that affects the game in any way. Might be useful; not sure yet.

Mike
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Mark D. Eddy
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Posts: 157


« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2002, 01:19:55 PM »

I'm happy.

   --Mark Eddy
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Mark Eddy
Chemist, Monotheist, History buff

"The valiant man may survive
if wyrd is not against him."
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