Interception?

[Vanguard]

Woops... My proposal is verging on turning this thread into outright flaming. Chill guys. What I'm discussing here is the merits of a competent fighter actively using his armour against a rabble of unarmoured foes.

Right, so here goes (I shall attempt to provide a justified context):

Let me conjur the scene.

A knight errant returns from crusades. In his absence, the steward left in charge of his lands has betrayed him.  With a band of hired thugs, the steward has subjucated the local people, bringing them to near-starvation through draconian taxes. His tyranny allows no escape. All men above the age of sixteen are slain. Only women and children plow the fields.  The thugs have free roam of the lands, looting and raping at will. All churches are burnt and replaced with imported bronze busts of the steward's head sixty feet tall.  

The knight's castle has been turned into a brothel where his sisters and daughters all serve.  His wife was set in stocks and granted to any passer-by, his mother likewise, his boots urinated in, and all his pets now hung as trophies about the castle. Someone stole his coffee mug.

There is no one he can rally to his aid. The peasants are all weak from opression and he must act soon. So he plots an elaborate, fiendish trap. It is agony, suppressing the near-overwhelming urge to act, this burning sickness in his soul spreading like cancer, a hatred for the steward that threatens to destroy him. But he prevails. It takes him two weeks to weave the plot, so monumental in its ambition that a lesser man would go insane from the sheer complexity. But it is perfect. And it can't fail. The knight will have his revenge.

In the rocky hideaway he has been skulking for these past weeks, the knights prepares himself. First he dons his woollens, then his chain, then his plate. His belt goes on next, then his father's sword through the scabbard. He picks up his shield. Without his horse, (he was forced to eat it or starve - a bitter price) the knight must travel afoot. He hefts his antlered great-helm, sighs one last time, then puts it on. The world now a bright slash of light through the visor, the knight leaves his hideout, thirsty for revenge. And he will have it, this he swears himself. Damning revenge.

On his way to the steward, the knight is ambushed by a rabble of ill-trained peasants who jump him from all sides, leaving him unable to evade.

Can he use his plate armour actively?



;)


Take care

[Mokkurkalfe]

Excellent context!
I assume his plan was to simply walk up to the steward and kill him?

Anyway, I've always thought that the active use of plate is made by the player when he ignores an attack that he knows will not harm him and simply attacks instead. Granted, that's more like active use of passive use armour, but still.

[Vanguard]

Hmm. yeah, I suppose so.

But what I'm getting at is this.

Some bloke is hefting this massive maul and attacking some other bloke wearing full plate armour.

If the bloke in armour stands utterly still and takes the full impact of the blow, is it gonna hurt more than had he been charging into the blow?

According to TROS, if you attack, then you have no CP left for reducing the effect of an attack. So the blow will have as much impact whether the armoured man is still or trying to intercept it.  That's why I'd like to allow the option of using armour as a blocking tool. Splitting your CP could represent the extra effort of gauging the trajectory of one's opponent's blow, and a success would result in ranges between both combatants being reduced to close.

But I've yet to test this so it could well end up being a crock of shite.

ps. Oh, and yeah, the plan was to walk straight upto the steward and cop him one (put his sword somewhere unpleasant).

Take care

[Jake Norwood]

what's really going on here, as I read it, is an "armored dodge." This seems pretty reasonable... I'd say that the easiest way is to use the dodge rules "as is," except that the fellow dodging doesn't have to put so much effort into the dodge since he's really just trying to lessen the blow enough that it won't hurt his armored self. I know it isn't named that way, but maybe the mechanic we want here has been under our noses the whole time.

Jake

[Vanguard]

Yeah, cool. That works.

Armoured fighter puts minimal CP into an evasion, not hoping for success but to lessen the foe's number of successes over him, trusting in his plate and toughness to absorb the overlapping damage.

But this still doesn't allow for the armoured fighter to attack at the same time. He can't gain initiative by losing a dodge. He must constantly dodge. What I'm looking at is aggressive close-quarters combat whilst putting your armour in the way of enemy blows. I'd still rather run it as a simultaneous block and strike using armour as shield (with higher target numbers than blocking with a shield).

This is not a useful tactic when wearing lighter armour, as no matter how well you succeed, your still getting hit. Far too risky.

Sorry. I'm being stubborn ;)

(Jake - I'm honestly not suggesting additional rules for TROS. The game just doesn't need it.  It's discussions on what rules best interpret certain specifics situations which interests me)

Take care

[Jake Norwood]

I see what you're looking for, but I think that you can't really do both, except perhaps to use your off-hand in a simul block-strike, which we've discussed. Striking in any martial art uses the whole of your body for speed, balance, and power--even more so with weapons. To suggest that you could deflect with your shoulder and strike at the same time simply doesn't work. If it's something you want in a more "cinematic" game, then go for it, but it isn't "historical," so far as I understand it.

Jake

[Thirsty Viking]

... This would endow the veteran knight with awesome superiority when facing multiple ill-trained and unarmoured foes (peasants basically) and allow him to literally plow through them, their blows hardly stopping him.

This I can imagine from an epic heroic knight :)

An epic heroic knight butchering peasants? An interesting concept of heroism ;)

Ah  but this really isn't needed IMO.  The average peasant probably has 6 or no more than 8 combat pool.   Between armor and Toughnes,  and being mounted,  the typical knight at 14+ CP is an object to be truly feared by peasants,   Even if caught afoot,  The typical knight in plate mail will be able wade through a small group of these relying on his armor and making attacks each exchange.   Also knights would typically be accompanied by a few other troops.  Unless you are dealing with some sort of questing situation (maybe).  It is much easier for a mob to overwhelm a single armored individual, than a group of 5-10.   Also typically peasants have no helms or other armor.  Also thier weapons will be ad hoc,  generally with higher target numbers IMO.  Of course, given a shield and longsword,  the block and strike is already there.

[Thirsty Viking]

Some bloke is hefting this massive maul and attacking some other bloke wearing full plate armour.

If the bloke in armour stands utterly still and takes the full impact of the blow, is it gonna hurt more than had he been charging into the blow?

Assuming the Bloke with a maul is a JAAP (Just An Average Peasant)  His CP should be relatively small 6-8.  If he is alone, throw white and counter with sword the sword when he attacks.
If he is member of a larger group, but he is only one with such an obviously threatening mass Weapon,  then Throw red and aTTack him, hoping to take him out before you get struck.

[Lyrax]

Or you can declare an evasive attack, which is already in the rule-books.

[Mokkurkalfe]

Or you can declare an evasive attack, which is already in the rule-books.

Yeah. It already simulates the tricky thing with using your body to block and attack at the same time. You just have to narrate it a little differently(i.e. block with yer armor instead of jumping backwards).
Don't think an ATN of 9-12 will give you enough successes to do any damage to a guy in plate.

[Vanguard]

Right cool.  Ok then, that pretty much covers everything I was seeking.  Like the idea of evasive attack regarding amour use. Had been thinking along the lines previously.


Might still run it as simultaneous Block/strike (Hope no one hears that - God, I'm stubborn)

Take care

[Brian Leybourne]

So, just tell your players it's called "taking the blow intelligently on armor" and use the evasive attack rules. Problem solved :-)

Brian.