Low CTN spells?

[Bob Richter]

Sorta. I'm thinking of stuff with permenant effects. The second example is right out (actually damages the door). The first example solves the hunger only temporarily. The last one is permenant but not very physical. You don't see the results.

I'm looking for something permenant, creative, and really felt by a lot of people.

Mike

Well, as you know, making anything permanent would defy the Second Law of Thermodynamics (which is physics, and therefore, something magic can't defy.)

But you can make things relatively long-lasting and impressive.

But most of those are high CTN spells.

You want things around CTN 4 or 5.

And it seems you want physical things as well, which means using Movement, Growth, and/or Sculpture.

Hm.

*Thinking*

I can't really think of anything that fits those many descriptions, aside of the "make a wall" spells proposed earlier (which would make an awfully small wall, IMHO)

Destruction is easier than creation. An amusing restatement of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

If you ask for easy spells, you're bound to get simple, dirty, destructive spells. And a few constructive ones of less effect (as you've seen.)

[Mike Holmes]

That was exactly my point Bob. The talented Sorcerer is one who can create. Any fool sorcerer can destroy stuff. Takes little talent to make an effective spell there.

Let's bump it up a CTN to 6 can I create anything cool there?

Mike

[Brian Leybourne]

Hmm.. something lasting and impressive.

OK, how about:

T1 (stone), R1 (touch), V2 (200 lbs), D0, L4 (sculpture 3, Vision 3). Total CTN: 8, reduced to 6 for formulisation.

Sorceror takes 200lbs of unworked stone, and uses vision 3 and sculpture 3 to refashion it molecularly into diamond (or cheese, or whatever, but diamond is more impressive), and physically to make a statue of Xanar Shard-Finder.

Impressive? Check. Lasting? Check. Will be stolen in seconds? Check.

As far as I can tell from Jake's comments, it's permanent without further effort. However, the question arises as to whether Sculpture 3 along with Vision 3 will allow you to manipulate molecules so as to change their composition, adding or subtracting electrons from atoms to change one type of matter into something else, but I assume this is possible (Concept 2/3 seems to make this OK). Jake?

I would probably also make the sorcerer roll a MA/Craft: Artist or similar to make a good job of the statue, but lets face it - a life-sized diamond statue is pretty good either way :-)

Brian.

[Jake Norwood]

Sounds good to me. The "permanancy" limitation is really to keep sorcerers from covering themselves in invisible armor that doesn't hinder and never goes away. And the like.

Jake

[Lyrax]

Sounds good to me. The "permanancy" limitation is really to keep sorcerers from covering themselves in invisible armor that doesn't hinder and never goes away. And the like.

If I had a goofball sorceror player in my game who did that, I'd tell him that he could no longer eat (unless you take your armor off.  What's that?  Can't do it?  Too bad) or something similar.  That would be hilarious.

Oh, and the wall spell wouldn't be a necessarily small wall.  It would take a while to build, perhaps multiple castings even, but two TN 4 or so spells are nothing compared to one TN 7 spell.  Especially if done via Spell of Three.

[Bankuei]

So perhaps to clarify permancy, what is meant is that any physical changes are indeed permanent, but magical effects that continue to defy natural law are not permanent?  For example, changing the statue into diamond is fine, since diamond naturally exists.  Whereas changing the statue into a glowing spectral energy construct would not be a permanent, since spectral energy isn't a physical substance just lying around.

Is this correct, Jake?

Chris

[Lyrax]

What I think Jake will say: Yeah, that's about right.

What I know that I say: That's pretty much how I play it.  If you build a bridge, the bridge stays.  If you make the bridge glow, then either the glow goes away or you lose sorcery pool -- permanently -- to keep it glowing.  Normal objects don't shrink, glow, grow, or be animated by magical means.  Use your common sense.

[Jake Norwood]

So perhaps to clarify permancy, what is meant is that any physical changes are indeed permanent, but magical effects that continue to defy natural law are not permanent?  For example, changing the statue into diamond is fine, since diamond naturally exists.  Whereas changing the statue into a glowing spectral energy construct would not be a permanent, since spectral energy isn't a physical substance just lying around.

Is this correct, Jake?

Chris

Yeah, that's about right. As I see it it's very much an issue of Social Contract (what does your group think it should be) and "natural" versus "obviously mystical" effects, like the glowing bridge. TROS magic is really pretty ambiguous...and that's on purpose.

Jake