RPGs "Wargaming Roots"

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

That was a great summary, Cowper. Thanks, and welcome to the Forge.

I looked around for the thread, unsuccessfully, in which I laid out some 60's history about groups who essentially wargamed, but whose main effort during play put aside the "big picture" in favor of this-or-that character who they'd made up. In other words, they'd play out the War of the Two Sides on the board with dice and all, and then they'd hang out and make up the stories of what Hero John and Heroine Jane did during the battle or whatever.

Groups varied in their emphasis and techniques for the two activities, but apparently this was going on ever since the early 60's. Greg Stafford's Glorantha saw this treatment, and although I don't know when, I'm pretty sure it pre-dated the publication of D&D. Dr. M.A.R. Barker's Tekumel setting definitely evolved in this context from the mid-60's, if not before. I have a few novels beginning with "Wargamer's World," published well before D&D was, that were based on these practices.

Probably none of this was role-playing as we currently see it (or maybe certain games like Universalis are finally a powerful system-design return to it). However, evidence of all this activity leads me to think that this culture of hobbyists seized upon the Gygax/Arneson work like starving carnivores, and the ferment that appeared (mainly in the midwest between Springfield IL and Madison WI, as well as on the west coast of the U.S. and in Britain) is how "role-playing" was "invented." That's definitely a personal take on the matter.

I think it's interesting that the earliest versions of D&D, RuneQuest, Chivalry & Sorcery, DragonQuest (I think), and High Fantasy all assumed that a wargame was already proceeding among the people who'd bought this new game, and that they would continue to wargame, and adopt role-playing into it as a "grounds-eye-view" of the larger-scale events that were being generated through the wargame. Tunnels & Trolls and early TFT, both of which were very mano-a-mano Gamist, were the exceptions for fantasy games (as opposed to the early SF and spy spinoffs of existing RPGs, which popped up right about the same time).

Best,
Ron

[Evan Waters]

However, evidence of all this activity leads me to think that this culture of hobbyists seized upon the Gygax/Arneson work like starving carnivores, and the ferment that appeared (mainly in the midwest between Springfield IL and Madison WI, as well as on the west coast of the U.S. and in Britain) is how "role-playing" was "invented."

That fits with a "history of RPGs" I read in PLACES TO GO, PEOPLE TO BE (I think), which said that the very first D&D thing- the supplement to CHAINMAIL- was, well, a supplement and not a complete game on its own. So it was incomplete in some areas- for Combat they just said "combat is as in CHAINMAIL except 1 figure represents 1 man" or something like that- but people who bought it were so intrigued by the idea that they were willing to fill in the gaps themselves. They mined it for ideas, added whatever they needed to make it work, and that created enough of a stir that Gygax and Arneson decided a complete game was in order.

[Mike Holmes]

Just to reinforce the idea of wargaming roots, take a look at the designers of other early RPGs.

Steve Jackson: Had already created Ogre, and a number of other board/wargames. His TFT, is a direct extension of boardgames. Melee and Wizardry (no RPG elements other than the 1:1 play) became Advanced Melee, and Advanced Wizardry, and along with In the Labyrinth (ITL) formed TFT. ITL was essentially the concrete that took the other wargame elements and made them into a RPG.

Marc Miller: I believe he had again already created the Striker miniatures rules. In any case was into naval miniatures. Again, Traveller was his move from a Wargame that he was playing to an RPG.

Most other games of the time were rip-offs of D&D (heck that can be argued of TFT, even). So, not only did these games come from Wargames, but they attracted mostly wargamers as designers at first. Who else?

I, in fact was, and still am a wargamer (learned to play Panzerblitz at the age of seven; my father was an officer). Further, I know, and still play games with, some of that same crew that originally played with Gygax and friends. I can assure you that it was all just an elaborate wargame at first.

Ron is right in pointing out the "West Coast" influence. I think that a lot of what pushed RPGs away from wargaming came from the left coast very early on (I, in fact, played my first game of TFT with a cousin of mine from Santa Barbara).

Anyhow, just a little persepctive.

The point is that, as soon as it got to other places outside of Wisconsin, and the primary gaming groups, it mutated almost immediately to other forms. In fact, one can argue that from the start, TFT is trying for Simulationism, rather than Gamism; Traveller as well. But they were all based around the idea of fighting as the primary activity, and this belies their heritage well.

Mike