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So I'm editing a game which, in its current incarnation, has a similar system to Sorcerer (but perhaps taking the "high die roll"). My system, as I'm planning it now, will use d6es.

Why?

Because my game will have an asian theme.

And Koplow Games makes these d6es that are TOTALLY FRIGGIN WILD- Basically they're the Chinese numbers for 1-6  written on the dice instead of Roman numerals (well, Japanese-Chinese, since old school Chinese-Chineese numbers are different).

How cool is that!*

Anyway, this decision, to adopt a d6 die mechanic, was inspired by the die.  At this point, I'd say that my choice now lies at 70% "These Dice are Really Cool" and 30% "A d6-Based System Would Really Work Well".

Is there something wrong here?

Any advice, stories would be helpful.

*A: very

Andy,

Will anything about the mechanics preclude players from substituting ordinary d6's?

Paul

Well, no, not really. It's just that I'm going with d6es instead of, say, d10s or other dice (that may work better) simply because of the fact that these dice are so interesting.

However, there will be one big reason to use them- I'm going to include 10 of these dice with every game.

Which is funny, when you consider that I've already got marketing schemes down pat for a game that I haven't even written yet.

-Andy

Here's a pic of the dice, btw (this company's written up the price because of their stupid little case, though). Also, the Ninja Buger deluxe RPG apparently comes with one of these dice.

http://www.houserice.com/houserice/japanesedice.html

Paul makes a good point. As long as I can replace the lost dice with regular d6s, that's a bonus.

d6s are actually pretty versatile. You should be able to come up with a mechanic using them that works pretty well unless you have some exotic need. How detailed a game are you thinking?

Mike

Imagine a system that's about as detailed as the middle ground between, say, Sorcerer, octaNe and Dread.

In other words, Not Very (^.^)

-Andy

Quote from: Andy KitkowskiImagine a system that's about as detailed as the middle ground between, say, Sorcerer, octaNe and Dread.

In other words, Not Very (^.^)

Can't imagine that I'd use anything other than d6s then.

Mike

Hmm, d6s are very versatile but you're also under some special constraints here.

For one thing, I'd avoid any mechanism that requires adding dice together. Having to add (squiggle) and (different squiggle) to get a number would leave me wondering, if the result is supposed to be a number, why do the dice have squiggles and not numbers on them?

The same goes for any system where I'd have to compare two dice to determine which has a higher-numbered value.

Many sorts of die pool mechanisms would avoid this problem, as players might only have to look for the presence or absence of one or more specific symbols in a roll, or count up how many such symbols are rolled and compare them with how many of certain symbols are rolled by someone else. However, this has a different drawback: it's not using all the symbols on the dice, just the one(s) that indicate success.

These dice would appear to call for a mechanism in which each symbol onthe dice has a different specific non-numerical meaning in the outcome. Something like cookie fu, but less fighting oriented, where specific symbols represent different elements that get narrated into a result. The meanings could be things like:

Good fortune -- chance or unexpected fortune contributes to success
Skill -- your effort or talent contributes to success
Opportunity -- a wild card, interpret as any other symbol
Adversity -- ill fortune or the manuvers of the opponent interfere with success
Obstacle -- a flaw in your plan interferes with success
Suspense -- the stakes increase

Opposed rolls would need some different meanings because some of the above would become redundant. It would take a lot more thought to make something workable out of this, but it's an idea.

- Walt

Hi there,

Issues of production costs and marketing aside, I see nothing wrong or weird with beginning the process of game design with Coloring of System (which is what "neat funky culture-evocative dice" means).

'Course, the next step is to generate all the five aspects of the game in such a way that the Color is inspiring for every element, and such that the actual play is encouraged to be coherent, which is tricky at the best of times. But that's the same "next step" that any game design must undergo from its initial moment of inspiration.  

Best,
Ron

wfreitag - I don't think his choices are quite as limited as you think. For instance, imagine a system using dice marked @ # $ % & +. Even if people aren't going to learn the number translations, a roll-under type mechanic could easily be used by putting the symbols on the character shett: for instance, my Haiku skill could be rated as @#, or as @#$%. The symbols wouldn't even have to be in order.

This is the place where I clear my throat and mention that Legends of Alyria uses funky symbol dice, and I happen to think that it works quite well.

Now the difference, of course, is that Andy is really only using a nifty d6* which, despite its coolness, is still only a d6.  However, a system can use non-numeric ratings on its dice and still work quite well.  Ron's point is well-taken, though, that making the Color be inspirational across the entire system can be tricky.  However, it can have excellent payoff.  I have found that it is easy to teach LoA to people because it uses moon phases and not numbers.  The effect is similar to using percentiles, but there is an immediate comprehension of the character sheet that is a wonder to behold.  Also, at the same time, the same symbol can be interpreted in different ways:

--Attributes (i.e. base effectiveness), where a brighter moon phase is always better.

--Traits (i.e. moral characteristics), where the brightness or darkness of the moon expresses both the moral slant and intensity of the Trait.

The system is essentially an opposed roll, where you roll under your opponent's Attribute (modified by Traits).  This is easily understood as well by my playtesters.

So, I would agree with Ron.  It can be done and sometimes should be done.

However, Andy isn't really making a game based around symbols.  He is still using numbers.  So the real question for Andy is if d6s will work for his game.  If they will, then great!  Otherwise, just having a nifty die will not overcome the problems that arise.

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf

**The die is nifty, BTW, as it stands at the intersection of my obsessive dice collecting and obsessive Japanophilia.

As has been said, there's nothing really wrong with this. So long as it adds and does not detract from the game. Some Color almost never hurts.

I would also stress adding a translation somewhere on a character sheet for folks. Some people have a lot of trouble trying to learn anything language related.

I'm currently reading Heartquest from Seraphim Guard and was surprised that they didn't come up with the idea of customized Fudge dice using "Hearts" and "Broken Hearts" instead of "plus" and "minus" signs.

>>>
However, Andy isn't really making a game based around symbols. He is still using numbers. So the real question for Andy is if d6s will work for his game. If they will, then great! Otherwise, just having a nifty die will not overcome the problems that arise.
>>>

That's pretty much it (Oh, and the character sheet will have the translation on it in an obvious place).

Now I've just got to sit down and hammer out some mechanics.
I spent 20 minutes last night rolling dice.  ROLLING DICE.

*sigh*

F*ck me, I'm a game designer for real.

Quote from: Andy KitkowskiNow I've just got to sit down and hammer out some mechanics.
I spent 20 minutes last night rolling dice.  ROLLING DICE.

You know, Andy, some of the more perverse of us around here like to run stats for people. If you were to just state your dice system in generic terms we could run a bit of analysis. I can do 10,000 rolls in just a minute on my machine here. About ten times that on the Mac at home.  :-)

Employ your resources. Or are these mechanics so super new and secret that you can't let they out to the public?  ;-)

Mike

The only problem with Chinese D6's is that "6" really isn't a very significant number in Chinese culture.  At least, not in the way that "5" is.

For instance you have:
-- The Five Colors (blue, yellow, red, white, black)
-- The Five Cereals (rice, two kinds of millet, wheat, beans)
-- The Five Sensory Organs (ears, eyes, lips, nose, tongue)
-- The Five Directions (north, south, east, west, center)
-- The Five Metals (gold, silver, copper, iron, tin)
-- The Five Flavors (sweet, sour, bitter, pungent, salty)
-- The Five Sacred Mountains (Taishan, two different Hengshan's, Huashan, Songshan)
-- The Five Internal Organs (heart, liver, spleen, lungs, kidneys)

For six, there's really only The Six Family Relations (father, mother, elder brothers, younger brothers, wife, children).  Of course, you could always count "6" as something special and focus on the other 5 (having them represent various things in various situations).  Then again, there are 6 lines in every one of the 64 hexagrams of the Yi Jing (or I Ching, as it's commonly known in the West), which you could probably do something with.

Still, if you really want an authentically Asian-feeling dice system, you might do what FVLMINATA did and look at traditional gambling, specifically: Ma Jiang.  There's a fairly complex dice system there (using D6's) to determine which player draws first and which tiles you draw (to prevent cheating, since many Ma Jiang players can tell a tile's identity by feeling the underside).  Additionally, many sets, like the one I have at home, have an additional die with The Five Directions printed on it, which is used to determine the "wilds" for a particular round.  

By combining the Asian D6's that you found and the Five Directions die, you could certainly come up with some REALLY interesting Asian-themed mechanics.

Just some thoughts.

Later.
Jonathan