Questions on embedded spells

[Irmo]

Oddly enough, as mystical as that explanation was, I think I can work it into the pseudo-"scientific" explanation I had been working on, based on recent reading of Scientific American back issues.  I think I can use some of the quantum physics articles to work in with Rick's description and make an almost coherent whole (although I may have to make some slight modifications to Rick's description, I think I can keep the feel of it)....  ah, the power of pseudo-science!  It's almost as strong as cheese!

Later on when I'm more sober, perhaps I'll post what I've come up with, if anyone's interested.

Lucien

Hm, being in science, I actually tend to cringe at most of the pseudo-scientific explanations. Totally aside from that, one thing that bugged me is that the aging effect is described as including growth of fingernails and hair....that's a pretty thin line separating that from actually creating matter out of nothing....after all, the building material has to come from somewhere, and accelerating the metabolism quickly enough to produce the hair and nails in time would mean that it is indeed for the character as if two months (or whatever) have passed. Given that he hasn't eaten at all during that time, that would mean that he's dead.

[Jake Norwood]

Well, I don't see it as really a science thing at all...I don't care all that much for science. I *do* have the hair and fingernails grow, but mostly because I think it's a fun effect and explains why wizards have long beards. I think that we get over-analytical on the magic, sometimes.

Jake

[Irmo]

Well, I don't see it as really a science thing at all...I don't care all that much for science. I *do* have the hair and fingernails grow, but mostly because I think it's a fun effect and explains why wizards have long beards. I think that we get over-analytical on the magic, sometimes.

Well, when one speaks of "molecules being accelerated" or from using Vision to observe processes on a cellular level, it's hard to leave science out.

[Jake Norwood]

Yeah, I agree, it is. I would personally rather see things more mythical and generic, especially now that it's been around a while, but that isn't what it is. Back in '00 when I first talked with Rick McCann about doing the sorcery section he said he had some great ideas and I let him run with it. I still think that his ideas were (and are) really great, even if they aren't exactly how I would have done it. The thing is that I'm pretty weak in the world of science, so I stay out of it. I'm good with fighting and history and languages and mechanics, but not really the concepts of science.

What I would like to see happen is for magic to take two paths in Sorcery and the Fey: one along very pseudo-scientific lines (the way Rick envisions it, I believe) and one along very fairy-tale-esque lines, the way that I see the fairies and the elves using magic. I think both versions have an important place in TROS, not only as a system, but among the people that play it. The funny thing is that the only real difference between the two would be in the explanation of why thing work and what the vagaries do--not really in application, I think.

[Irmo]

What I would like to see happen is for magic to take two paths in Sorcery and the Fey: one along very pseudo-scientific lines (the way Rick envisions it, I believe) and one along very fairy-tale-esque lines, the way that I see the fairies and the elves using magic. I think both versions have an important place in TROS, not only as a system, but among the people that play it. The funny thing is that the only real difference between the two would be in the explanation of why thing work and what the vagaries do--not really in application, I think.

There is a German RPG which is quite similar....though spell-oriented. Technically, humans and elves use the same spells, but humans use pseudo-latin spells (others are really just warped elvish, especially with such spells that were copied from them), and ramble of such things as the thesis of a spell, and the realignment of arcane powerlines, globules and spheres of existence etc. and study magic in academies (to the point where they invented actual excerpts from in-world books including rituals, customs, laws), whereas the elves speak the spells in their own language and are just in touch with nature enough to know how to coax it into growing faster, shape ice etc. Though among the oldest of elves (and the mythical ancestor race) there are some that are free-casters, they use magic without the need for spells. But as to the last state I have the game, it didn't offer game mechanics for that, seeing such individuals more as a part of the game world to be experienced by the players rather than impersonated by them.

Noteworthy also that the game has some of the most "elvish" elves I have seen....though my knowledge of smaller US games is quite limited.

[Surga]

Well, when one speaks of "molecules being accelerated" or from using Vision to observe processes on a cellular level, it's hard to leave science out.

It sounds to me more of a language thing - the author speaking to the reader about what those spells entail. The processes do not need to be scientific from the character's perspective. The next edition of the book might say things about even more advanced processes that our modern world may have discovered and then had entered the common vernacular. That does not necessarily mean that sourcerers will suddenly know the same common concepts.

[Irmo]

Well, when one speaks of "molecules being accelerated" or from using Vision to observe processes on a cellular level, it's hard to leave science out.

It sounds to me more of a language thing - the author speaking to the reader about what those spells entail. The processes do not need to be scientific from the character's perspective. The next edition of the book might say things about even more advanced processes that our modern world may have discovered and then had entered the common vernacular. That does not necessarily mean that sourcerers will suddenly know the same common concepts.

Well, if he needs to be able to observe a process at the cellular level, it follows quite stringently that he needs to understand them at least to some degree. If what he sees holds no comprehensible information for him, he might as well stare at the clouds. But my point WAS the player level, the effect when I read of molecules traveling at the speed of light, or hair growing an equivalent of months within seconds.

[Surga]

Well, if he needs to be able to observe a process at the cellular level, it follows quite stringently that he needs to understand them at least to some degree. If what he sees holds no comprehensible information for him, he might as well stare at the clouds. But my point WAS the player level, the effect when I read of molecules traveling at the speed of light, or hair growing an equivalent of months within seconds.

The language and concepts used in the fantasy rule book could be a pointer to the scope of each concept, whereas the full content itself could be out of scope of the rules.