Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by deadpanbob, September 25, 2002, 08:04:52 AM
Quote from: M. J. YoungI actually see three sides to this debate.The side that make the most sense to me is that which maintains that conduct is only relevant as it implies motive or intent. Gamism isn't about what you do, but about why you do it. The same is true for simulationism and narrativism.The side which opposes this maintains that we can't know motive or intent, we can only know actions. This seems to have the stench of Hume about it--we can't know reality, only perception. To take this seriously, it would seem that there are no gamist motives, only gamist actions; no narrativist intents, only narrativist choices.....(snipped)....The third side is represented solely by Ron. He maintains that motive and intent have nothing to do with this whatsoever, as he understands them. They are a taxonomy, like observing the spot patterns on the wings of butterflies. Gamists are gamists because they act like gamists, not because they have gamist motives, and so for simulationists and narrativists. He never slips into letting motive in through the back door.
Quote from: contracycleEven if the theory is wrong in some siginificant way, going out and accumulating the data which disproves it would lay the groundwork for whatever model, if any, should succeed it. We will necessarily have to speculate on the motivations of players in this process; we will have to ask questions, discuss our experiences, explore our own motives and those of our players - but to priviliege those aspects above what is observable would be to use the least reliable available data. When we see behaviour, we are seeing motive expressed - but it is the behaviour which is accessible.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsWhen I see Bob the Player say, "Yeah! You suck!" and eagerly grab the dice for his turn as his fellow player laughs ruefully, gazing at his failed saving throw, then I recognize one of the many kinds of Gamism in action ... or at least I'm alerted to keep an eye on how the group reacts over the course of the whole session to this sort of behavior. Three rounds later, the two players cooperate like fiends to double-team the troll wizard and a good roll saves their bacon - they high-five each other, and Sam the Player says to the GM, "Yeah! You suck!" and they all laugh, delighted. OK, I say, point 2 for Gamism goin' on here, and keep watching.
QuoteFor example, Seth, you make your group sound difficult. What's your play preference?