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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 61 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: New RPG project I'm proud to be a part of...  (Read 14045 times)
kamikaze
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Posts: 41


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« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2002, 06:58:21 PM »

Quote from: Jared A. Sorensen

And when I say "guys," I mean guys. Dolls are always female and Ferrants are always male. One thing we're seriously considering is having a metagame rule where your gender determines what character type you play. Men can be male Ronin or Ferrants. Women can play Dolls or female Ronin.


Well, you can write that rule, but I'll just laugh at you and ignore it.  I really am a 6'3", 230lb., big hairy male thug and I'll play a Doll *just to squick you out*.  I'll seduce all the other PCs, who will be male Ronin and Ferrant characters played by women and gay men, and I'll describe that cold dead-flesh lovin' in detail.  I'm straight, but I ain't narrow-minded.

Jared, STOP for a moment and look at the reactions you're getting here.  At *best*, people will laugh at you as a freak and ignore it.  At *worst*, they'll think you've got major issues, and not buy the game because anyone that screwy isn't going to make a playable game - crazy people only make games like Hybrid, FATAL, Synnibarr, etc.  Nobody's going to play with your rule, except for people who already don't play cross-gender characters.

Actually, I won't bother getting it anyway, since it sounds very much like _Amnesia Moon_ by Jonathan Lethem.  I can already do that with, say, _Call of Cthulhu_ and _Dreamlands_, or with _Kult_.
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reptile2k1
Member

Posts: 25


« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2002, 07:39:30 PM »

I did not want to jump on the gender-issue train, but this post by kamikaze somehow forces me to.

We have some sort of strict gender rule in our group as well:
"No guy is allowed to play a female character unless all participants believe he can do so in a reasonable fashion"
Why? Well, because all of us had terrible experiences, where male players used their characters as prostitutes: to gain information, to get out of trouble, to make money, etc. This was very compelling... Imagine you are a guy and want to get a job at company x. The personnel manager is a terribly smelling fat ugly hairy lady with a mustache and your only way to become employed is to go to bed with her... Would you do that? No! When a guy plays a male character and his character ends up in the same situation, most players opt not to do it, because the gender connection is very tight (this really could happen to you or at least you can imagine it). Most players would not even do it if the manager was a young, athletic and very handsome guy... But once the character is female, plopp, sex with everyone vaguely helpful ensues ("Let's send 'Hooker Girl' to collect the info").

What disturbs me more is this "chicks are either Xena-style warriors or plague-bearing sluts" attitude... Maybe someone of the authors (it's not only Jared) has some issues with certain ex-girlfriends and uses writing as a form of coping mechanism/therapy... Hey, some of David Lynch's movies are about disturbed sexuality and he is making millions of dollars with it!
Or maybe it is the renessaince of macho-gaming. Some nerds realized girls (with few exceptions) will never be truly dedicated to gaming, so this is their means of revenge... I mean, think of it this way: They refuse to date with you because the only thing you are good at is as interesting to them as soccer or dragster racing... These guys have a good reason to be frustrated.

On the other hand I can clearly see some problems ahead. Imagine a girl in your group that doesn't want to play a Sigourney rip-off... Her only alternative will be the zombie hooker, not very motivating I think. But at this point it is the duty of all participants to deal with the subject: "Rulebook page X says that you have to!" is not an intelligent way to handle things.
To solve the problem I would handle the gender issue this way: Zombie hookers (what was their name again?) may only be played by guys!!! Why? Well, only guys display the greed and corruption to do the job believeably. Any decent girl (except "professionals") should be compelled by the original rule.

My conclusion?
Reading a book about fascists doesn't make you a nazi, so playing a macho game (like 90% of all computer/console games) doesn't make you a women-hater either.
If you don't like a certain rule, drop it. If you don't like a certain setting, don't buy the book.
I for one am looking forward to this game because of the cool artwork and some crazy ideas... I don't expect the setting to be very innovative (Fallout meets Dreamlands) but the list of participants guarantees some very interesting twists and hooks.

Now stop whining until the baby gets realeased...
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A good set of rules fits on less than 4 pages!
kamikaze
Member

Posts: 41


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« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2002, 09:55:06 PM »

Quote from: reptile2k1
We have some sort of strict gender rule in our group as well:
"No guy is allowed to play a female character unless all participants believe he can do so in a reasonable fashion"
Why? Well, because all of us had terrible experiences, where male players used their characters as prostitutes: to gain information, to get out of trouble, to make money, etc. This was very compelling...


Despite my not-very-serious comment about seducing the other PCs, I've never seen what you describe.  In 24 years of gaming, not once has someone, male or female, played a female character as a hooker.  I *have* seen both male and female players with both female and male characters use seduction (not necessarily going all the way) to get what they want, though.  It's very common in _Kult_, espionage (modern, historical, and SF), and modern crime genres.

I rarely play fantasy games, so I dunno if those promote different behaviors, but I'd think it's just the players.

Quote
Or maybe it is the renessaince of macho-gaming. Some nerds realized girls (with few exceptions) will never be truly dedicated to gaming, so this is their means of revenge... I mean, think of it this way: They refuse to date with you because the only thing you are good at is as interesting to them as soccer or dragster racing... These guys have a good reason to be frustrated.


My gaming group currently consists of me, one married couple, a gay couple, and 0-3 other women.  Until last year, it was mostly me, maybe 1 other man, and 3-4 women.  This is not unusual at all in my experience.  I just don't play with any of those macho-gaming groups, and I really recommend against them.

Women like gaming as much as men, if they're playing with people who bathe, don't drool at the very thought of being in the same room as a woman, etc.  The guys you describe are frustrated because of their own bad choices.  Nobody should game with them until they clean up their act.
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Jared A. Sorensen
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Posts: 1463

Darksided


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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2002, 05:42:04 AM »

I'm locking this topic and starting a new one when more on DECAY becomes available. Thanks for everyone's comments.
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jared a. sorensen / www.memento-mori.com
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